Where did the world's first civilization appear?

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

You mean they'd worked out that a Scorpio would never get on with a Capricorn as far back as 4000BC? Astonishing.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by our_man
Fertile Crescent was where Civilization began. Although the Irish were up to some serious stuff over 5,000 years ago with the construction of Newgrange, whose construction obviously indicated a culture which had a deep understanding of astrology.

I have news for you bud, these people weren't Irish, ie not Celtic.

[TCO]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
b) The first civilisation is usually ascribed to the eastern Mediterranean region, but not to the Middle East.

Where in the Eastern Med? I can think of parts of the Eastern Med (Lebanon) that are also parts of the ME. Of course Greece would be Eastern Med but not ME. Could you be more precise, Mr. Physicist?

[our_man]

Good point Sikander, I forgot Celtic immigration only happened at a later stage

Still, they probably did do some breeding with the Celts, so some of their genes are still bouncing around in the population!

As a matter of interest, do you happen to know what group did colonize Ireland befor the Celts?

[Lars-E]

Sumer.

See History Begins at Sumer : Thirty-Nine 'Firsts' in Recorded History, by Samuel Noah Kramer, Hiroshi Tanaka

Book cover

I checked Middle East; I guess Sumer can pass as Middle East.

[Saint Marcus]

The Tiahuanaco theory seems to be based around some assumptions about both the intent and precision of the builders of that city. Reasonable archaeologists still date it to the first few centuries AD.

Only about 3 to 4% of the site has been researched yet. Hard to put a date on it already.

Anyway, what do you all think of the connection between new world and old world civilizations (tabaco and cocaine found in egyptian mummies)?


Also, the Indus valley civilizations are believed to first appeared 6000-8000BC.


plus, from google: CNN.com - World's oldest cities were Indian - January 17, 2002. sadly, the link didn't work

[Ethelred]

I go for Jericho as the worlds oldest walled city.

The oldest capital city in the world is also in the Middle East. Damascus, 6000 years.

Oldest epic poem Gilgamesh. Sumeria.

Oldest Alphabet. Sumeria.

The Middle East gets a another nod with Sumeria. Worlds oldest written recipe for BEER.


The fact that I don't drink beer doesn't change the significance.

[MORON]

It existed in Sid's mind....

[Thrawn05]

Originally posted by Chris 62
Sumer is the oldest, depending on what defines civilization.

Civilization is defined as:

1.An advanced state of intellectual, cultural, and material development in human society, marked by progress in the arts and sciences, the extensive use of record-keeping, including writing, and the appearance of complex political and social institutions.
2.The type of culture and society developed by a particular nation or region or in a particular epoch: Mayan civilization; the civilization of ancient Rome.
3.The act or process of civilizing or reaching a civilized state.
4.Cultural or intellectual refinement; good taste.

Of the ancients, Sumer is the first to fit these parameters.

That's what my history book says (and that was what was on the test ).

[Sikander]

Originally posted by our_man
Good point Sikander, I forgot Celtic immigration only happened at a later stage

Still, they probably did do some breeding with the Celts, so some of their genes are still bouncing around in the population!

As a matter of interest, do you happen to know what group did colonize Ireland befor the Celts?

They are sometimes called the Iberians IIRC. They were smaller and darker than the Celts, and it is said that the 'little people' myths refer to them. They were more advanced than the Celts in some ways (astronomy / astrology, religion). Druidism was probably their baby to begin with, though it was adopted and spread by the Celts to their cousins in Gaul.

[Saint Marcus]

The Tiahuanaco theory seems to be based around some assumptions about both the intent and precision of the builders of that city. Reasonable archaeologists still date it to the first few centuries AD.

There are ancient port facilities at the Tiahuanaco site, yet there's not water nearby, nor was there any water in the "first few centuries AD". The last time the waterlevel reached the site was....10,000 to 13,000 years ago.

[Chris 62]

Here are some links to Tiahuanaco, and the theories about it:

http://www.thule.org/tiahuanaco.html

http://emuseum.mnsu.edu/prehistory/latinamerica/south/sites/tiahuanaco.html

http://www.crystalinks.com/tiahuanaco.html

A quick look will show that nobody agrees on the date it was founded, or on the age of the ruins.

[Saint Marcus]

Same with the Sphinx and the Giza pyramids

[Chris 62]

I recently heard it put forth that the Sphinx is much older then the Pyramids, and has water damage!

Of course, none of this can be proved.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

It's just about impossible to date the Sphinx- it's carved out of bedrock. The Pyramids are a different matter.