"Blacks ought to be thankful for slavery; otherwise, they'd be back in Africa."

[Lars-E]

This reminds me of my American history teacher saying that the most intelligent Africans were caught and brought over to America What nonsense, but then again I don't expect much from...

BTW the argument works the other way around too: The most stupid were those who got caught...

[David Floyd]

Lars, what does THAT have to do with anything??

[Stefu]

This argument is almost hysterically inane, considering that none of the black people alive today would exist in world without slavery, since removal of slavery would shake history up so much that the world would be completely different. To assume that someone currently alive and black in America would even be existing if his ancestors hadn't been brought to America as slaves would require that his ancestors, who might have belonged to different tribes in all corners of Africa, would have magically met each other, and their children had met each other, and so on. It also requires to assume none of them die before contributing to this grand chain of breeding, and that all are born with same genetic backgrounds. Furthermore, it would assume that all the white people doubtlessly having had their part in this genetic tango would come to Africa for specific purpose of contributing to this dance of inheritance. In other words, 'taint happening.

[SultanofATL]

Again exactly how have they benefited? How much do you know about africa? Don't believe everything you see on T.V. Land ownership in America...Blacks are last. Don't you think this is possible because unlike most groups who came to America our ancestors weren't allowed to homestead and achieve the American dream? Not to mention that here in the south blacks dealt with 'jimmy crowe' until middle to late 60's that seriously hindered educational development which has a direct effect on prosperity. Yeah slavery has been benificial for about 30 years!??!!!!

[Jac de Molay]

I just love all the speculative history here. All you so-called experts must have Divine Knowledge that African society would be entirely the same today in the absence of slavery, which strip-mined africas intellectual capital, not to mention the exploitation of colonialism as a whole.

I won't mention names, but wake up and smell what you're shoveling.

Dave

[orange]

I resent that Guy, the quote you used is taken out of context.

I do NOT justify slavery by saying "oh, well hey they can't complain, they got a free voyage to the land of opportunity." What I am saying is that it's impossible for everyone to go back and extract greivances for past injustices to family members, or else we'd all have a suit against everyone! There were plenty of injustices in the past, more than we know of, so lets just go on with the future and accept the fact that, despite the hardships we've ALL had to go through, we are all living in an age now where inequality and social injustice are swiftly dying out, and are virtually non existant in America and the rest of the west. If Blacks need a 1.4 Trillion Dollar check to make ammends, just think of all the other law suits that will have to be filed and answered in order for the world to be 'all paid up'

It's just not worth it.

However, I do agree with funding Urban programs by taxing corporations, and if you really think about it, those blacks that are living in poverty or less than mediocre conditions 'because of slavery' will be able to move up not as a race, but as a class, along with their white and hispanic counterparts in the cities and urban class. NOTHING in this country should ever be done according to race (IE same reason I'm against Affirmative Action)

[Lars-E]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Lars, what does THAT have to do with anything??

What has anything to do with anything? Puhleez.

I know my post was irrelevant to the thread's subject, but it's no big deal for me. For you on the other hand...

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by SultanofATL
Again exactly how have they benefited? How much do you know about africa? Don't believe everything you see on T.V. Land ownership in America...Blacks are last. Don't you think this is possible because unlike most groups who came to America our ancestors weren't allowed to homestead and achieve the American dream? Not to mention that here in the south blacks dealt with 'jimmy crowe' until middle to late 60's that seriously hindered educational development which has a direct effect on prosperity. Yeah slavery has been benificial for about 30 years!??!!!!

If you think blacks in the US are no better off than those in africa you need a reality check buddy.

[loinburger]

This analogy doesn't hold water

I never made the argument in question, but this analogy between blacks/slavery and Jews/Holocaust is not valid. One would first have to argue that the Jews that currently live in Isreal would be significantly worse off if they lived in Europe before this analogy could be made to stick. Given that Europe (at least the Western half) is very stable while Isreal has been repeatedly subject to terrorist attacks over the past half-century, I don't think that anybody can successfully make the argument that the Jews are significantly better off in Isreal than in Europe.

[orange]

Originally posted by David Floyd
They shouldn't be happy about slavery, but they SHOULD be thankful they live in the US today, especially with all those social services they leach off of me.

You are a conceited self righteous *******

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Stefu
This argument is almost hysterically inane, considering that none of the black people alive today would exist in world without slavery, since removal of slavery would shake history up so much that the world would be completely different. To assume that someone currently alive and black in America would even be existing if his ancestors hadn't been brought to America as slaves would require that his ancestors, who might have belonged to different tribes in all corners of Africa, would have magically met each other, and their children had met each other, and so on. It also requires to assume none of them die before contributing to this grand chain of breeding, and that all are born with same genetic backgrounds. Furthermore, it would assume that all the white people doubtlessly having had their part in this genetic tango would come to Africa for specific purpose of contributing to this dance of inheritance. In other words, 'taint happening.

Youre right, there is a good possibility that they wouldnt exist without slavery. So what is your point? They are better off not existing?

[Drake Tungsten]

Re: This analogy doesn't hold water

Originally posted by loinburger
I never made the argument in question, but this analogy between blacks/slavery and Jews/Holocaust is not valid. One would first have to argue that the Jews that currently live in Isreal would be significantly worse off if they lived in Europe before this analogy could be made to stick. Given that Europe (at least the Western half) is very stable while Isreal has been repeatedly subject to terrorist attacks over the past half-century, I don't think that anybody can successfully make the argument that the Jews are significantly better off in Isreal than in Europe.

Not to mention the fact that the Zionist movement was already well underway before World War II even started. The Holocaust undoubtably helped to guarantee that the Jews would be allowed to form the state of Israel, but to say that it is the sole reason is a gross oversimplification. The presence of Jews in Israel cannot be attributed to one event, as the presence of Africans in the United States can be.

[Ramo]

Presumably if there was no African slavery in North America, African peoples would've been able to offer goods more valuable than slaves to Europeans, so their economies would have had to bemore developed, and their states would've been strong enough to resist the worst of colonialism, namely the perpetual undermining of native industry and states with arbitrary national borders, and would be a much better place to live in than in our current timeline.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Ramo
Presumably if there was no African slavery in North America, African peoples would've been able to offer goods more valuable than slaves to Europeans, so their economies would have had to bemore developed, and their states would've been strong enough to resist the worst of colonialism, namely the perpetual undermining of native industry and states with arbitrary national borders, and would be a much better place to live in than in our current timeline.

...you presume.

[SultanofATL]

Originally posted by Caligastia


If you think blacks in the US are no better off than those in africa you need a reality check buddy.

I repeat have you ever been to Africa? Its not all desert and jungle. Not everyone lives in huts. As a matter of fact have you been to middle america lately? Or the deep souther US? I would venture to say these poor areas are just as bad as the worst places in Africa. I'm not saying I'd want to live in Africa. Mainly because I'm an American. But, it is totally unfounded for you to say that blacks wouldn't be happy or happier if we had been able to come to America by choice as a lot of Africans do now. Just trying to enlighten you and others.