why the hell isn't the US kicking the **** out of the palestinians?!?!

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Dalgetti


well, well , aren't we throwing words around ?

Well if it isn't failure, it's a form of success I hope I never achieve.

[Eli]

I think I forgot how to read in english, because the cnn.com headline is unbelievable. Did the messiah come?

[Saint Marcus]

Nextly, we need to gain the moderate Arab's support for an attack on Iraq.

if the US invades Israel, I'm sure it will convince the arab nations to support an attack on Iraq.

[faded glory]

The Media is dubbing it the "Passover Massacre". hmm...

[Adam Smith]

Bugs:

The killings won't stop while Sharon is in power. Given his history, I can understand the violence (without condoning it).

I had a good deal more sympathy for Israel under more moderate governments. But the killings did not seem to stop, they just seemed to continue at a lower rate. It just seems that damn few people on either side are interested in peaceful solutions of any stripe. Depressing...

[Tom201]

@faded glory
why they should invade israel? Easy. US claim to be on war on terrorism. Israel is full of terrorists, lead by fanatical government, possess weapons of mass destruction. Israel should be added to the "Axis of Evil" List.

[Sirotnikov]

First of all, finally, today, Israel has captured proof of what we claimed all along:

The palestinians are using Ambulance vehicles to trasport arms

Today an Israeli road block decided to do a check of a Red Crecent Ambulance.

The driver knowingly trasported a 10 KG belt of explosives, under a strecher, on which (probably unknowingly) laid a sick kid!! His family was also in the back.


Furthermore, two international observers of the TIPH (Temporary International Presence in Hebron) were shot dead, and one more injured, by a Palestinian gunman.

The survivor, a Turkish observer, said that the shooter was a palestinian, wearing an outfit of the Palestinian security forces, and used a Kalachnikovs.

The official palestinian announcement plamed IDF for the incident, and said that "the doctors at the hospital agreed that the bullets used to kill the inspectors are only used by IDF".

-Huh??
Since when are doctors ballistics experts??
Nice try of a cover-up!

Originally posted by Bugs ****ing Bunny
The killings won't stop while Sharon is in power. Given his history, I can understand the violence (without condoning it).

Why are you picking on Sharon?

Sharon's history is one of a warrior.

Arafat is a tyranical terrorist who threatens his own people.

And he is in control of his people, as he proved for a short while after the Dolphinarium massacare, and the Ze'evi assassination.

The thing is - since the "cease fire" kicked in place, some week and a half ago, he has not once told anyone to lower the flames and stop the fire.

He talked with some security chiefs, but Barghuotti himself (leader of the Tanzim) said that "there is no cease fire".

Maybe instead of listening to his america-oriented speeches, you would for once, listen to what those whom he commands has to say.

Arafat himself claims he is comitted to a cease fire, while the people sorrounding him, are giving interviews on Al-Gazira, the Palestinians stations and the Hezballa stations, and saying "there is no cease fire".

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Tom201
@faded glory
why they should invade israel? Easy. US claim to be on war on terrorism. Israel is full of terrorists, lead by fanatical government, possess weapons of mass destruction. Israel should be added to the "Axis of Evil" List.

1) Israel is full of innocent citizens.
Unlike the palestinian territory, which claims that it can't event control it's policemen, that go in Israeli towns and begin sporradic shooting. Not to mention the "citizens" that go Kaboom killing Israeli innocent citizens.

2) Israel is lead by a democratically elected PM and a democratically elected parliament.
The PA is lead by the tyranical Fatah & PLO leader Yassir Arafat.
Here's what the BBC had to say about him in their website:

...But his pathological refusal to share power or delegate responsibility is taking a toll on his health and is weakening popular support.
[...]more and more Palestinians are losing patience with his mercurial and dictatorial style of leadership.
[...]
From his earliest days, Arafat has indulged in exaggeration and the weaving of myths about his life, insisting, for example, that he was born in Jerusalem even though his birth, in 1929, is clearly recorded in Egypt.
[...]
At the same time, he developed an obsessive desire to be leader of the pack and to get his way. The end always justified the means.
[...]
As early as 1959, as Palestinian exiles in Kuwait were forming Fatah, later to be the biggest group within the PLO, Arafat was only playing lip service to the idea of collective leadership.
[...]
Two years later his contemporaries noticed how he "exercised total control over the Fatah war chest and how he bribed people to join him."
[...]
Led by Arafat, the PLO took up arms themselves, hijacking airliners and committing other acts of violence.
[...]
As a military leader, Arafat often led the way into action against the Israelis.[...]
To these ends he has used threats and intimidation as to ensure that he alone should hold the reins of power. And thus it is today in the Palestinian territories.

3) Israel is claimed to be possessing weapons of mass destruction. Given that claim, it's surprising how it was never used, not even in 1973 when Israel was caught on the brnik of destruction, with "it's pants down" and according to the "sources" had already possessed Nuclear Weapons.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
3) Israel is claimed to be possessing weapons of mass destruction.

Oh, come on! You can not seriously expect us to take you seriously when you speak like that.

http://www.fas.org/nuke/hew/Israel/

[Az]

so we go on destroying any nation that has WMD?

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov


Why are you picking on Sharon?

Sharon's history is one of a warrior.

A certain refugee camp springs to mind, as does Palestinian homes getting flattened by bulldozers. It takes a very special type of wilful blindness to miss the blood on Sharon's hands.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Bugs ****ing Bunny
A certain refugee camp springs to mind,

A certain Christian Phalange lead by Eli Hubaika springs to mind.
Eli Hubaika, until recently assassinated, was a minister in Lebanon.
This even though he personally commanded the Phalanges on site.

Why this two faced attitude?

The man really responsible was Eli Hubaika. And the Lebanese and the Peace activists had no problem with him being a minister.

However, Ariel Sharon, who is in directly responsible, only because of his duty, and who was proved by court of law to not have known in time about the massacare, is widely blamed for this.

This is a dirty political game play, and not a substantial accusation.

as does Palestinian homes getting flattened by bulldozers.

As does palestinian homes being used as turrets to fire at Israelis.
As does palestinian homes containing stahses of weapons and explosives.
As does palestinian homes containing tunnels to Egypt from where they get weapons.

It takes a very special type of wilful blindness to miss the blood on Sharon's hands.

It takes a very special politcal leaning, to exaggurate Sharon's role in every military action, and then ignore completely Arafat's direct command of the bigest terrorist faction in history - the PLO.

[Tom201]

@Sirotnikov
1) with terrorist are the soldiers and government meant. u cant deny that they killed innocent civilians. U can argue if they intend to do so or not. opression counts as terrorism too.

2) hitler was also elected democratically. The Israeli ppl. are fanatic -> they elect a fanatic government. Democracy dont prevent that.

3) given the link of DinoDoc, its more by far more sure that Israel have them, than iraq.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by DinoDoc


Oh, come on! You can not seriously expect us to take you seriously when you speak like that.

I didn't say anything about Israel actually possessing or not possessing weapons.

I just pointed out, that in the case that we do, we've been terribly smart and carefull in using them.

Un-like Saddam who has already used mass destruction weapons, against his own people, and against Iran.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov


It takes a very special politcal leaning, to exaggurate Sharon's role in every military action, and then ignore completely Arafat's direct command of the bigest terrorist faction in history - the PLO.

Find anyone who ignores Arafat's role and raise this point with them. It's a little wasted on me.