Slavery reparations

[orange]

Originally posted by Guynemer
According to the latest census estimates, 68,000.

You got a source for that? Not that I'm saying you're wrong...but sounds a bit off.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Guynemer


Okay. I see what you're getting at. But, again, those were tribal leaders and kings who profited--governments, essentially. The governments that are there are now are in no way, shape, or form related to those tribal leaders and kings.

The companies, however, are the same companies--name changes and whatnot be damned.

You are splitting hairs. The people that own those companies NOW did'nt own slaves, those companies have shareholders who didn't own slaves. Yet they are expected to pay?

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by orange


Then that's what they should lobby for. Playing victim for something that they were never directly affected by, and seeking retribution from individuals who are not directly responsible for it, will only succeed in doing one thing as far as I'm concerned: pissing me off.

You're a smart guy. You know damned well if they lobbied for that, they'd never it get. They'd have to settle for something far less. That's why they've got to try to shoot the moon here.

And, once again--they were affected. They never benefited from the wealth that was owed their ancestors. And, they're not seeking retribution from individuals who are not directly responsible for it. They're seeking reparations from those companies that did not pay their ancestors what they were owed.

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by orange


You got a source for that? Not that I'm saying you're wrong...but sounds a bit off.

US Census Bureau estimates... archives. They have the next batch going up next month. Here's where I got 68,000:

http://eire.census.gov/popest/archives/national/nation2/intfile2-1.txt

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Guynemer


Wow. Now you've REALLY lost me. What the hell are you trying to say?

You said you didnt want to go there. I took that to mean you didnt want to continue the discussion. If everyone who supports reparations for slavery would stop discussing it that would be great.

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by Caligastia


You said you didnt want to go there. I took that to mean you didnt want to continue the discussion. If everyone who supports reparations for slavery would stop discussing it that would be great.

No. I said I wasn't following you. Meaning, I didn't have any clue what the hell you were trying to say. So try again, Sparky.

Splitting hairs? Maybe. But you can't deny that there is a much stronger link within these companies than there is between the African leaders then and the African leaders now.

Besides, it was the companies who profited from the work these slaves did. Shouldn't the companies pay for that work?

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Guynemer


And, once again--they were affected. They never benefited from the wealth that was owed their ancestors. And, they're not seeking retribution from individuals who are not directly responsible for it. They're seeking reparations from those companies that did not pay their ancestors what they were owed.

I haven't seen anything, anywhere that former slaves were supposed to get reparations other than some land.

And how didn't they benefit? Where do they live now? Are they free to do what they want, including suing these companies? Slaves would never have had a choice, and if slavery had not happened they would be in Africa where they would not have the freedom or relative wealth that they have now.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Guynemer




Splitting hairs? Maybe. But you can't deny that there is a much stronger link within these companies than there is between the African leaders then and the African leaders now.

Not as much as you think, the leaders of a lot of the African countries are NOT elected officials, they are hereditary kings, princes and so forth.

Besides, it was the companies who profited from the work these slaves did. Shouldn't the companies pay for that work?

What about Irish and Russian immigrants?

Were they paid fairly for the work they did in sweatshops?

Or Mexican immigrants now? are they paid fairly?

[orange]

Originally posted by Guynemer
You're a smart guy. You know damned well if they lobbied for that, they'd never it get. They'd have to settle for something far less. That's why they've got to try to shoot the moon here.

That doesn't justify it at all. Nor does it justify slavery reparations. I will not argue for the extreme just so they can get the less extreme. It's far better in my mind to ask for something reasonable than to ask for something greedy. I won't support those who argue for what they are arguing for. I will support them if they argue for what we both agree is a legitimate request.

And, once again--they were affected. They never benefited from the wealth that was owed their ancestors.

Argument doesn't work.

If they weren't brought to America, they wouldn't even be half as rich as they are now, statistically speaking.

And, they're not seeking retribution from individuals who are not directly responsible for it. They're seeking reparations from those companies that did not pay their ancestors what they were owed.

A corporation owned and funded now by people who never used or owned slaves, or even existed when slavery did, should not be made to pay for the mistakes of people that may or may not be related to them, and certainly not to people who were not directly affected by the injustice that is slavery.

[Caligastia]

I heard an interesting take on this today. A lawyer was discussing the civil case and he mentioned that a jury could opt for "restoration" vs restitution. You could restore the descendents of slaves to the conditions they would exist in if their ancestors had not been slaves. All it would take is a bunch of one way airline tickets.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Guynemer
Besides, it was the companies who profited from the work these slaves did. Shouldn't the companies pay for that work?

Companies are made up of people. People who did not own slaves.

[DinoDoc]

*Ahem*

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Why should someone who was never a slaveowner cut a check to someone who was never a slave?

Originally posted by DinoDoc
BTW, I was under the impression that ex post facto laws were illegal. If so, how do these lawsuits get over that hurdle?

[Jac de Molay]

Had a question...

AFAIK, African-Americans constituted a small portion of those who worked for these companies in indentured servitude. Would the same reparatations apply to other groups (ie Chinese, Mexican) who were utilized under the same circumstances??

Dave

[WhiteElephants]

I wonder if Mike Tyson would get some of this money, or say, Oprah Winfrey, Halle Berri, Tiger Woods, Denzel Washington, Colon Powell, Michael Jordan, etc, etc.

I wonder what is more efffective -- picking yourself up by the boot straps, or pissing and moaning about ancient history?

[MrFun]

Even though I'm white, it's too easy for many other whites to simply state that slavery reparations if full of crock.

The extreme bias of these white people is overwhelming because they have no idea how past enslavement, discrimination, segregation, and disfranchisement of past generations has compounded negative effects on the present generation in terms of opportunity to improve their lives.