Gun Crime

[KrazyHorse]

[q]I suppose if one haf a few billion dollars - which begs the question of why would someone blow up the country, if doing so would cost him his entire fortune. Country collapses, banking system and world economy collapses. Unless you're gonna tell me he has that much cash

Do you know how much a single ICBM with thermonuke warhead costs? With a production line like the US was running in the 60s, it's probably somewhere in the neighbourhood of 10-20 million. There are thousands of people around with that much cash.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
There are (and always have been) limits placed on individual sovereignty over private property (real and chattel). I'm not allowed to own private property that poses a genralised threat to members of the public. I can't store anthrax in improper conditions. I can't set explosive booby traps on my front lawn. I can't stockpile chemical weapons ready for launch. All these are independent of whether or not the anthrax escapes, the booby traps go off or the mustard gas is fired at New York. Society has the right to set reasonable limits on what individuals can own or do with their property, based on the potential for physical harm.

Small firearms pose a general safety risk to society when in the hands of individual citizens.

No, David, I am not opposed to the right to own property. I am opposed to people believing they have the right to own small firearms, which are made for one purpose -- to kill.

[mactbone]

Where it gets really interesting is if a rich person, a.k.a. Bill Gates decides to nuke Bejing in order to get them to pass copyright laws so that he can make more money. If he nukes another country, who does China go after, the US, or Bill? I'd wager the US, meaning that anyone with enough firepower (bomber plane, etc.) can start a war between the US and any country they want.

[David Floyd]

Do you know how much a single ICBM with thermonuke warhead costs? With a production line like the US was running in the 60s, it's probably somewhere in the neighbourhood of 10-20 million. There are thousands of people around with that much cash.

Point A - Find someone with $20 million willing to kill millions of Americans and reduce his personal fortune to whatever the metal his coins in his pocket are made of are worth, then come talk to me.

Point B - The federal government is under no obligation to sell nuclear weapons to anyone, and are perfectly within their rights to refuse to do business with any defense contractor who does (or rather, defense contractors who sell missile and launching equipment - corporations don't, AFAIK, put together nuclear weapons), and are free to pressure foreign nations not to either. What they are not free to do is prevent people from actually developing or owning their weapons, which, once acquired, become private property.

[David Floyd]

Where it gets really interesting is if a rich person, a.k.a. Bill Gates decides to nuke Bejing in order to get them to pass copyright laws so that he can make more money. If he nukes another country, who does China go after, the US, or Bill? I'd wager the US, meaning that anyone with enough firepower (bomber plane, etc.) can start a war between the US and any country they want.

If he really wanted to, Bill Gates could purchase a former Soviet Bloc nuke and pay someone or a group of someone's to set it off in Beijing, as things currently stand.

MrFun, you can't support property rights but make exceptions for things you don't like. That's sort of like saying someone is free to do anything in their private life except be gay, which both you and I would agree isn't Constitutional.

[Sarxis]

"Guns don't kill people

bullets do."

[KrazyHorse]

Point A - Find someone with $20 million willing to kill millions of Americans and reduce his personal fortune to whatever the metal his coins in his pocket are made of are worth, then come talk to me

In a population of thousands of rich folks you claim there's not one wacko enough to do it given the opportunity? Your total disregard for reality is stunning, and I find it hard to take you seriously.

[KrazyHorse]

Point B - The federal government is under no obligation to sell nuclear weapons to anyone

I wasn't claiming the gov't would be the one to do the selling. The knowledge is easily accesible to anybody, and free trade in primary materials would be enough to build one pretty cheaply.

[David Floyd]

In a population of thousands of rich folks you claim there's not one wacko enough to do it given the opportunity? Your total disregard for reality is stunning, and I find it hard to take you seriously.

No, I simply find it irrational to the point of absurdity that someone rich enough to acquire nuclear weapons would blow up his own money for some random reason. Further, you can't justify making a good illegal for everyone on the assumption that someone, somewhere might use it to kill some people - see if that holds up in the Courts

[David Floyd]

I wasn't claiming the gov't would be the one to do the selling. The knowledge is easily accesible to anybody, and free trade in primary materials would be enough to build one pretty cheaply.

Sure, if you have enough advanced degrees in physics, engineering, and probably a bunch of other stuff too - I doubt anyone on Poly, even with a complete set of schematics and detailed instructions, could successfully assemble a nuclear weapon.

[KrazyHorse]

Until this discussions steps away from an alternate plane where people can always be trusted to do what's in their own best interest, I'm not participating.

[David Floyd]

Until this discussions steps away from an alternate plane where people can always be trusted to do what's in their own best interest, I'm not participating.

It's not an alternate plane. Statistically, wealthy people in the US generally do not commit violent crimes - I think their biggest one would be domestic violence.

[Sarxis]

Originally posted by David Floyd


Sure, if you have enough advanced degrees in physics, engineering, and probably a bunch of other stuff too - I doubt anyone on Poly, even with a complete set of schematics and detailed instructions, could successfully assemble a nuclear weapon.

Didn't you ever see that move 'The Manhattan Project'?

Huh, HUH?

[KrazyHorse]

Sure, if you have enough advanced degrees in physics, engineering, and probably a bunch of other stuff too - I doubt anyone on Poly, even with a complete set of schematics and detailed instructions, could successfully assemble a nuclear weapon

There are at least 10 people here who could do so, and you're talking to one of them. GP could probably do it with his eyes shut and his hands tied behind his back. Rogan and Dr. Spin, at least, could probably design one from scratch. The physics is 1940s and 50s stuff, and is easily accessible to even those in the undergraduate stages of their education.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by David Floyd
I doubt anyone on Poly, even with a complete set of schematics and detailed instructions, could successfully assemble a nuclear weapon.

I highly doubt that. Given thier physics experience, I think that either Rogan Josh or KittyHorse could build one if they had the materials.