Racism in LOTR and Harry Potter

[ranskaldan]

I detect a stretch here.

Harry Potter is clearly not racist. From the beginning to the end it is against "pure-bloodedness", by introducing good-hearted Muggle-borns (Hermione) and evil pure-bloods (Malfoy).

The real racism exists in Eddings' Belgariad series - the blonde and blue-eyed, brave and virtuous Alorians and the dark-haired and angular-eyed, evil and secretive Angaraks. And even he twisted the story around in the end by introducing good Angaraks and bad Alorians.

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Stefu

Wow. I didn't know that when I was a kid of, I don't know was it ten? that I was just looking for fodder for my malignant racist ideals.

*sigh* If you can´t write anything worth reading, don´t write it at all...

Does this mean that "Three Little Pigs" by Disney is a Communist film because Stalin liked it?

Of, course not. Don´t be daft.

Blah blah blah blah blah. Look, big words. I'm talking fancy! And I'm using keywords - Globalisation! Consumerism! Community! Why does every goddamn left-wing columnist have to write in same goddamn way?

1) Cause what he says is essentially true.

2) It bugs the hell outta people like you...

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Kamrat X

1) Cause what he says is essentially true.

[Stefu]

*sigh* If you can´t write anything worth reading, don´t write it at all...

That's probably why you essentially left most of my post unanswered.

2) It bugs the hell outta people like you...

Yeah, people who think that people should read books they're criticizing before they criticize them and people who don't think word poetry can replace actual thought in a column.

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Stefu


That's probably why you essentially left most of my post unanswered.

Not really, if you actually had written something worth responding to, I would´ve done so.

Yeah, people who think that people should read books they're criticizing before they criticize them and people who don't think word poetry can replace actual thought in a column.

You assume he hasn´t read the book just ´cause he doesn´t say things you like to hear? Really, Stefu...

[Stefu]

You assume he hasn´t read the book just ´cause he doesn´t say things you like to hear? Really, Stefu...

No, I'm assuming he he hasn't read the book (namely Harry Potter here) because he completely misunderstands the whole Muggle thing and thinks that wizardry, in Rowling's books, is inherited, when it isn't.

[Faeelin]

LOTR is racist, discriminatory, and just wrong. IT preaches that anyone who's black (such as orcs) is evil, and seeks joy through death and suffering inflicted on others. In addition, Voldemort lives in the East. Clearly you can see Tolkien explaining that the East is the source of all evil, while the West, where the elves are from, is the source of all that is good and decent.
In addition, both sides are painted in shades of good and evil. It's not like people have ever wanted to destroy all othe civilizations; only "cultural misunderstandings" cause such events.

Clearly, Tolkien took great joy in adding subtle methods of indocrinatin to his works, in hopes of keeping the British Empire pure. This is a racist bok, and I urge every lover of humanity to burn it and all copies.

And Harry Potter... don't even get me started.







Because someone here is going to take that seriously, I was being sarcastic.

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Faeelin
Because someone here is going to take that seriously, I was being sarcastic.

Thanks for adding that line...

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Stefu


No, I'm assuming he he hasn't read the book (namely Harry Potter here) because he completely misunderstands the whole Muggle thing and thinks that wizardry, in Rowling's books, is inherited, when it isn't.

Isn´t it possible that he´s read the books but still misunderstands the whole thing? I´ve read the books and I came to much the same conclusion he did. I´ll guess I´ll have to read them again just to make sure... After the Pratchett book I´m reading now that is (Thief of time)

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Faeelin

Because someone here is going to take that seriously, I was being sarcastic.

You could´ve fooled me

[- Groucho -]

Re: Racism in LOTR and Harry Potter

Originally posted by Kamrat X
[snip]
Perhaps they are related this way. We have been so isolated in our little consumerist, suburban cocoons, being told relentlessly how important we are as individuals - not as a group. Multiculturalism tells us that no culture has primacy over another, no habits are superior. We must tolerate everything. We must esteem our own culture, our own values, no higher than others.

Globalisation tells us that nothing has a value unless it can be expressed in dollars, that flexibility, change and choice are all the highest virtues, that a hankering after tradition or group values is the worst kind of vice.

For many people, the consequences of this - communities destroyed or undermined, values set at nought, habits despised - have been profoundly dispiriting.

Have I got this right? It seems this guy is arguing that (a) multi-culturalism and globalisation are inherently anti-racist, (b) it is the reaction people have to the fact that these two trends take western culture down a peg that makes them yearn for something to fill their built-in need to be racist, and (c) Tolkien and Rowlings fill that need.

Is that the gist?

If so, I agree with (a) and think the guy is being autobiographical when it comes to (b) and (c) - to which I would respond: don't assume everyone shares your need to "us and them" the world, buddy.

I think it is more accurate to say that Rowlings and Tolkien both have created worlds, that while complex, are simpler than our own, and they in part help people fill their need for a world that is understandable.

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by Kamrat X


Isn´t it possible that he´s read the books but still misunderstands the whole thing? I´ve read the books and I came to much the same conclusion he did. I´ll guess I´ll have to read them again just to make sure... After the Pratchett book I´m reading now that is (Thief of time)

Let me save you the trouble. The author of the article is completely out of his friggen mind when it comes to Harry Potter. Everything--EVERYTHING--Stefu said is true, re: HP. (Having not read LOTR, I can't speak to that.) Indeed, even more so, Harry Potter himself is a "mudblood", with his mother being born to "Muggle" parents. The books are, quite explicitly, anti-racist and anti-classist. The author of the article is either a) dishonest, having not read the Harry Potter books, or b) an unbelievably stupid git.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

What a load of old cobblers. In LoTR, one of the wisest and most powerful characters (Elrond) is a half-breed. The most heroic of all turn out to be the humble little hobbits.

Lift me one section from Tolkien that equates Orcs with blacks. Just one.

[Buck Birdseed]

Where tolkien comes closest to a racist vision is in his description of various "decaying/degenerate" peoples within the Human race. Very much part of the Nazi canon and generally accepted elsewhere before the War, that kind of thinking permeates older Fantasy literature to a large extent (see below) and it is slightly surprising that Tolkien was allowed to get away with it.

Now, if you want real racist fantasy, I highly recommend Robert E. Howard's Conan the Cimmerian short stories, available in two excellent recently published volumes from Fantasy Masterworks. Besides being a whole lot better than anything Tolkien ever wrote in pure literary terms, they are almost viciously racist- half the stories involve broad, sweeping generalisations about various races (and we are talking races here, not species) and their supposedly ingrained metal characteristics. Plus al sorts of pseudo-Darwinist pap.

(P.S.- isn't Harry Potter and Star Wars more Monarchist than anything else? With a select few borne to rule the world or whatever.)

[- Groucho -]

Originally posted by Snapcase
Where tolkien comes closest to a racist vision is in his description of various "decaying/degenerate" peoples within the Human race. Very much part of the Nazi canon and generally accepted elsewhere before the War, that kind of thinking permeates older Fantasy literature to a large extent (see below) and it is slightly surprising that Tolkien was allowed to get away with it.

I don't get why depicting some people as decaying (i.e. the elves) is bad. I've always been intrigued by the idea that a culture could just "run out of steam" and no longer inspire its people. I'm not sure if it has ever actually happened, but I'm not usre what kind of negative implications writing about such a people could have.