What should the EU do about US power?

[Bereta_Eder]

you're going to eat us for breakfast????


ONE WORD: PRETZEL

[axi]

Where is the "Down with the US and EU!" option?

[Velociryx]

Good one, bud!

No....we're not gonna eat you for breakfast....that was my point. All this talk about US aggression....sheesh....if we were HALF as aggressive as everyone makes us out to be, we could stomp most of the planet flat....we're not LIKE that (tho I *readily* agree that some of the stuff Dubya has been talking up lately are...spooky).

-=Vel=-

[el freako]

Faded Glory,

Originally posted by faded glory
How high are taxes in middle/upper business brackets in most EU nations? 40%? 80?% in some...?If you only think you can sneak them higher without pummeling economic growth or cutting out your Social priorities to cover military.....

If taxation really does 'pummel economic growth' as you claim then please explain why the EU's trend GDP per person went from 67% of the US level in 1990 to 72% in 2000 whilst EU taxation averaged 44% of GDP compared to 30% in the US (and they both rose by just over 2% of GDP during that time)

Originally posted by faded glory
Who will go along with that? Speaking on your own citizens here.

I think that Europe's citizens will probably choose to 'free-ride' on America's global dominance (although this poll seems to be proving me otherwise) - but people's convictions can change, in the 1890's or 1930's most American's would have been aghast at spending even the paltry 2-3% of GDP that Europe does on defence and they chose higher taxation to get more clout.


Comrade Tribune,

The US is no threat to the EU and we in Europe have far more in common culturally, politically and economically with them than with either Russia or China.
Even if the US became a threat to us we could meet them as equals in conventional warfare given 10-15 years warning - and even in the extremely unlikely scenario of the US attacking with no warning with nuclear weapons then the British and French nuclear arsenal, at nearly 1,000 warheads combined (most of them SLBM's), would wreck North America.

[Makeo]

I recommend reading Wesley Clark's book for a deeper look into this issue.

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by el freako
The US is no threat to the EU and we in Europe have far more in common culturally, politically and economically with them than with either Russia or China.

The US threats to blow up the Middle East aim (indirectly) at Europe as well. It is important for OUR independence that they are not allowed turning everybody else into a (defacto) colony.

CivII has it right: If one goes for world hegemony, everybody else should ally to stop them before it´s too late.

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by Makeo
I recommend reading Wesley Clark's book for a deeper look into this issue.

I recommend reading Brzezinsky´s book about 'The Only World Power'. It´s brazen arrogance is very enlightening.

And, btw: I believe we have more in common with Russia and even China. Russia is European, after all (The Rus who founded Russia were Vikings), and China is at least a real culture.

[Makeo]

Tribune,

I was talking to the thoughtful posters. People like freak. You and FG would get nothing out of a book that did not completely agree with your pre-conceptions.

You don't need to be a Clark fan to learn from an insider's look at the Kosovo War.

If you want to stick to childish good/bad arguments, than stay away from books like that. Stick to making your typical Poly comments. Maybe you and Wiglaf can get each other's rocks off.

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by Makeo
You don't need to be a Clark fan to learn from an insider's look at the Kosovo War.

Oh yeah, the book of a war criminal. Who was responsible for bombing trains, TV stations, Albanian (!) civilians and the Chinese embassy. And who would have started World War III if General Jackson hadn´t disobeyed his orders to forcefully remove the Russians.

Clark belongs either into a prison or into a madhouse. Like so many of your 'leaders'.

[Makeo]

see my post above. BTW you talk like the Civ2 AI.

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by Makeo
BTW you talk like the Civ2 AI.

I take that as a compliment; the CivII AI had a lotta good lines.

And it had more commonsense than the nations of the real world. It would probably sneak attack the US every second move by now.

[faded glory]

Originally posted by el freako
Faded Glory,



If taxation really does 'pummel economic growth' as you claim then please explain why the EU's trend GDP per person went from 67% of the US level in 1990 to 72% in 2000 whilst EU taxation averaged 44% of GDP compared to 30% in the US (and they both rose by just over 2% of GDP during that time)

Tho many wil tell you otherwise. Its pretty much common sense. Every dollar you take from citizen, is a dollar less he spends. Which means he buys less products.Which means less manufacturing and services needed. All pyramids sheme's breakdown, and the Social spending one is no different. Look at Japan...I have many examples, im sure you have some to the contrary. This isnt the thread to argue this. So im adding my 2 cents and disengaging from the above.

I think that Europe's citizens will probably choose to 'free-ride' on America's global dominance (although this poll seems to be proving me otherwise) - but people's convictions can change, in the 1890's or 1930's most American's would have been aghast at spending even the paltry 2-3% of GDP that Europe does on defence and they chose higher taxation to get more clout.

This is very true about the SA. But Europe has huge dificulties in doing these.

Firstly, you havent united. Things could come up.

Secondly, Your military projections right now are laughable. Your armies dont have enough funding, you continually are lacking spare parts. You have hardly any military industry, most of Europe's military equipment and aircraft...along with the armaments comes from USA, or Russia. So you have along way to go..Christ sakes, you guys dont even have Stealth or the abililty to manufacture cruise missiles. nor do you have the integrated GPS and guidance systems at your disposal.

And we are working 2nd generation stealth aircraft and unmanned suicide drones that carry 5,000 pound warheads that can land in a bucket, and disposable unmanned weapon platforms dropped from the air on supply routes, programmed to mow down anything on the horizon that even so flinches with Gattlings and fast loading TOW's.

And lastly, I doubt many EU citizens are going to go along with the tax increase. Even if it is 3-5% (Which I dont think will come to within 100bil of us) we have the ability to double even triple ours, and still have only moderate brackets.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune



And, btw: I believe we have more in common with Russia and even China. Russia is European, after all (The Rus who founded Russia were Vikings), and China is at least a real culture.

Bah. America has plenty of culture. Coca-cola, McDonalds, American movies.....in fact, aren't the Europeans the ones who are worried about being drowned in American Culture?

(Well, not the Germans. They love their Simpsons)

Like so many of your 'leaders'.

Ponder the illustrious leader you have right now, before making such statements.

In any event, I doubt a European General could have prosecuted the Kosovo Campaign any better. Clinton's mandated "30,000 ft" floor helped us miss a lot of targets. (or hit wrong ones)

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by Lonestar
Bah. America has plenty of culture. Coca-cola, McDonalds, American movies...

Ponder the illustrious leader you have right now, before making such statements.

Like many, you are under the impression Haider is the Austrian head of state or similar. He is not.

He is the governor of our most dumbass county. That´s all. (But he is good at creating publicity. His Iraq visit was a stunt to get mentioned in the papers, and he succeeded. Not that I think anything is wrong with visiting Iraq.)

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune

...not to mention Fox!

Like many, you are under the impression Haider is the Austrian head of state or similar. He is not.

He is the governor of our most dumbass county. That´s all. (But he is good at creating publicity. His Iraq visit was a stunt to get mentioned in the papers, and he succeeded. Not that I think anything is wrong with visiting Iraq.)

I wouldn't ever visit Iraq. I burn easily.