What should be done with smokers?

[Drekkus]

Originally posted by Dissident
and the problem with that is....?

There's no problem in legalizing smoking dope. It's criminalizing ordinary smokers. I think it's now established that second hand smoke is as dangerous as eating a cookie. What right does the government have to tax a luxury item like smokes.

In europe sigarettes are very heavily taxed. Reason: it's bad for you and therefor should be discouraged. But until now high taxes have not seen a significant decrease in smoking.

[ZoboZeWarrior]

What should be done ?

KILL THEM ALL !!

[Solly]

dp and buggered up edit

[Solly]

Originally posted by Boddington's
I have no problem with people smoking cigarettes just so long as I don't breathe the **** they exhale or that burns off the cigarette into the air. There is a growing movement on campus now.

[The Mad Monk]

I beleive that all smokers can and should be cured.
























I favor sugar curing, myself.

[Zoid]

Isn´t smoking banned in public buildings (bars, restaurangs, etc) all over the states? Or is it just California?

[Skanky Burns]

The reason that governments keep raising taxes on cigarettes (besides the fact that they can while people will still keep buying them) is that the cost of health-care for smokers is much more than that of non-smokers.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
The reason that governments keep raising taxes on cigarettes (besides the fact that they can while people will still keep buying them) is that the cost of health-care for smokers is much more than that of non-smokers.

That is more myth than reality. The vast majority of health care dollars are spent keeping very old retired people alive and collecting their pension. Even though smokers tend to be less healthy than other people (and often for reasons not directly related to their smoking) they tend to be unhealthy during the earlier years of their lives, when the consequences for it are a lot less troublesome / expensive.

Most people who die from smoking related illness do so from heart disease, which has a very good chance of taking someone out in one fell swoop. Lung cancer tends to be fatal as well, which means that there is a period of intense medical activity followed by a fatality. These people tend to be younger than their non-smoking compatriots who die from the same diseases, which means that they are less likely to have used up health care dollars for things in the interim. Older people use vast sums of money for the drugs that alleviate the symptoms of their ever growing list of ailments. They also tend to have a lot of joint replacements, and in the end often end up totally dependent in nursing homes for the last years of their lives. The cost of a lung cancer death at 68 is cheaper than all the medical costs for an average person between 68 and 83.

[Jac de Molay]

The tax burden should obviously be higher to acommodate the cost burden that smoking brings to everybody. In my neck of the woods, it's about 4$us a pack, and I would definitely favor a 3$ increase in taxation alone. Keep in mind I'm a light smoker right now(down to about 1-2 packs a week) who's trying to quit for good. Hitting someone like me directly in the pocketbook is the most effective way to reduce/slash smoking.

Dave

[blackice]

Albertans have a higher cost of living than those in the Maritimes. In the most recent study of the Consumer Price Index, Statscan found that Alberta had a CPI of 114.6, higher than all PEI, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick which had CPIs of 109.4, 112 and 110.4. Considering these facts alone, Alberta's minimum wage should be at $6.10 for Albertan's working minimum wage jobs to enjoy the same standard of living as workers earning the same wage, for example, in PEI.

Don't be so quick to bash the premiums because you don't understand them.

First I lived there for 22 years I understand them completely.
Second you have a high cost of living compared provincially even to BC Any Government propaganda is simply lost on me. Check stats Canada for your "Alberta Advantage".Second it is not free here or there yet you keep selling it is free you pay out of pocket with what $120.00 per quarter or has it increased?

No, because they're treated for things like lung cancer while they're still alive first.

Leaked government documents show in fact the Federal Government is not concerned about that for the mere fact it cost's more to healthcare for an elderly person than a smoker and for longer. Second national average is it cost 37 cents per pack healthcare costs in tax. The reality is the tax is 57 cents so extra money for healthcare. Smokers not only pay thier fair share they pay a portion of yours too. I think that is why they continue to sell an over the counter deadly drug to it's citizens. Unlike any other say diet pill, cigarettes continue to be sold and are unregulated. Name another deadly drug or substance that is still sold that is proven to kill, over the counter yet.

The waits are longer here in general, but it's all "free".

Waits are longer everywhere from cut backs not from smokers.

Dave taking case studies like Ontario increasing the cost increased the blackmarket share. The end result is less money for healthcare.

[Urban Ranger]

Sik,

The problem with that model is it ignores the social cost of sidestream ("second-hand") smoking.

If the harmful effects of that is taken into account, smokers do incur a lot more expenses than non-smokers.

[Jac de Molay]

Dave taking case studies like Ontario increasing the cost increased the blackmarket share. The end
result is less money for healthcare.


They may be partially true-health costs may not be completely recouped. I am looking at such a dramatic taxation from two perspectives.

1) reduction, maybe not elimination, of usage ,especially in the lighter smokers like me.

But more importantly,
2) dissuasion of the biggest market that tobacco companies go after most- teen smokers.

Obviously, from the example of the failed drug war, this is not a panacea. But, I've witnessed so many smoking casualties first-hand that I feel something dramatic must be undertaken.

Dave

[Asher]

Originally posted by blackice
Albertans have a higher cost of living than those in the Maritimes. In the most recent study of the Consumer Price Index, Statscan found that Alberta had a CPI of 114.6, higher than all PEI, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick which had CPIs of 109.4, 112 and 110.4. Considering these facts alone, Alberta's minimum wage should be at $6.10 for Albertan's working minimum wage jobs to enjoy the same standard of living as workers earning the same wage, for example, in PEI.

Again, you forget the difference in taxation which allows for Albertans to have that extra income to spend on things.

$6.10? That's not much different from the current $5.90. But I don't know anyone around here that hires at $5.90. McDonalds hires at $7, Superstore hires at $8.50, etc. There's actually still a shortage of low paying workers like highschool students so the wages are pretty nice.

First I lived there for 22 years I understand them completely.
Second you have a high cost of living compared provincially even to BC Any Government propaganda is simply lost on me. Check stats Canada for your "Alberta Advantage".Second it is not free here or there yet you keep selling it is free you pay out of pocket with what $120.00 per quarter or has it increased?

I'm comparing it to the States, where it is not "free". There they deal with HMOs and people's care is dependent on what they can afford. Here, the government will pay for the essential healthcare, thus "free", but still not free.

The reason why the maritimes have lower CPIs is because of the low incomes on average. I'm pretty sure it has to do with the government aid they get, too.

I can't find anything to back up your BC argument, though.
I keep finding more and more things to support my argument...

http://www.gov.nb.ca/immigration/english/live/house.htm

http://www.info.ede.org/amenities/cost-provinces.html

http://www.calgarytechnologies.com/invest/advantage.html

BTW, I don't pay any health premiums. My father's employer pays them for our family.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Lovely fags.

[Bereta_Eder]

Suck on them.