What should be done with smokers?

[Dis]

Perhaps they should get their own nation. I say we create 2 zones in the United States. A smoking section and a non-smoking section. Well put the smokers in the south east . And us non smokers can live in the north or the west.

yes this is rant. I have nothing against smokers. In fact almost everyone I know smokes. I live in a smoking town. We endorse smoking in our city.

But what I dislike is sharing health insurance with smokers. The doctors in our city are leaving my city and state because they can't afford malpractice insurance. The only solution I see is them raising rates which will raise insurance rates. In the future I see medical insurance as something that only the upper middle class and the rich can afford.

I really don't want to lose my insurance in case I get in some sort of accident. But why should I pay more money to pay for smokers killing themselves? I am perfectly healthy. And before anyone says it, I eat very little red meat, I am not overweight, and I excersize regularly.

I think healthy people should have separate health insurance. completely voluntary of course. We wouldn't want to create some sort of fascist society.

Speaking of. How is it like in Canada? I would consider moving there (although I can't pass that darned requirements test ) if that were the only place I could get health insurance. Is the health care system in danger there? I can't see how they keep up with skyrocketing health care costs.

[Asher]

Re: What should be done with smokers?

Originally posted by Dissident
Speaking of. How is it like in Canada? I would consider moving there (although I can't pass that darned requirements test ) if that were the only place I could get health insurance. Is the health care system in danger there? I can't see how they keep up with skyrocketing health care costs.

Depending who you ask, it's in danger or it's fine.
Personally I think it needs a major overhauling.

Alberta's changing how healthcare works, trying to set an example for other provinces to follow (the slogan is "Health care: Alberta's emerging advantage). They just released a massive report on how to improve healthcare, and the province is following the recommendations made to the letter.

But I don't think it's in danger. I've lived in both the US and Canada and dealt with both healthcare systems a bit. We had less waiting to do when living in the states, because we could afford to get the good treatment fast. The waits are longer here in general, but it's all "free". If it's life-threatening illness the waittime is usually the same in the US/Canada, it's optional surgeries (like my wrist surgery) that have long waiting lists.

[Drekkus]

Don't smokers use less health care because of their premature death?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Drekkus
Don't smokers use less health care because of their premature death?

No, because they're treated for things like lung cancer while they're still alive first.

[Sikander]

You are gaining (on average) in retirement bonuses that smokers won't be around to collect as well as all that geriatric care that eats up so much of the nations healthcare budget. Smokers tend to die off just when they would normally become very expensive.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Hasn't Ca. banned smoking in nightclubs or something radical like that? Although terribly unrealistic, that would be fantastic!

[Asher]

Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt
Hasn't Ca. banned smoking in nightclubs or something radical like that? Although terribly unrealistic, that would be fantastic!

The town I lived in in California banned smoking in public places. Period. It was awesome (I don't smoke )

Here in Calgary, Canada, they recently banned smoking in the presence of minors. Which means smoking sections in restaurants (many are non-smoking exclusively, more switching all the time) cannot allow minors inside.

[Dis]

hey an optimistic point of view (possibly pessimistic for smokers )

smokers die therefore using less of my social security.

interesting.

OK this thread is useless now. I suppose it all evens out in the end

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Asher

No, because they're treated for things like lung cancer while they're still alive first.

Everyone dies of something, but smokers do it sooner, saving tons of money in retirement payouts and hip replacements etc. The geriatric years are extremely expensive to the overall healthcare budget. Smokers save money in healthcare, pensions and they pay enormous taxes to boot.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Sikander
Everyone dies of something, but smokers do it sooner, saving tons of money in retirement payouts and hip replacements etc. The geriatric years are extremely expensive to the overall healthcare budget. Smokers save money in healthcare, pensions and they pay enormous taxes to boot.

It was my understanding that treating things like lung cancer was considerably more expensive than treating things like hip replacements. Not to mention the people who live long enough to have lung cancer, and need hip replacements, and live off pensions, etc.

[blackice]

Free? in Alberta? No you pay for Healthcare by way of premiums and they are going up. Now for a province that has all that cash hummm yup they are showing the rest of the privinces how to gouge the public for sure. In Ontario and most all other provinces it is FREE. We pay nothing at all that is free. As for smokers taxing the healthcare system:

Crusaders argue that smokers are draining state and federal healthcare programs and must be forced to pay their way. But this argument is specious. Duke University economics professor W. Kip Viscusi has just completed a study for the National Bureau of Economic Research which estimates that tobacco-related social costs averaging 43 cents per pack are more than compensated by the current average state and federal taxes of 53 cents per pack.

Viscusi's findings confirm the conclusion of a 1989 study from the Rand Corporation and the University of Michigan: cigarette smokers already pay their way. In addition, Viscusi argues that because smokers die younger than nonsmokers -- our research shows that smokers lose almost 8 years of life on average -- they may actually benefit society by siphoning fewer dollars from Social Security, Medicare, and private pensions.

Crusaders claim that increasing excise taxes suppresses cigarette sales, and indeed consumption apparently falls off after tax hikes. Legal consumption, that is. Because in virtually every market where taxes have been increased, a booming black market has followed. Consider the mess created by the Canadian government in the late 1980's by an increase in taxes that drove cigarette prices up to $4.00 a pack. By 1993 a $5 billion smuggling industry was in full swing, with contraband smokes totaling 20-25% of all cigarettes sold in Canada. Taxes were slashed in 1994, and smuggling activity decreased by 90%. The Canadian experience is being repeated in several states where taxes have made smuggling economically feasible. California's high tax costs the state as much as $68 million in lost revenue. In early 1995 one of the largest cigarette-smuggling operations in the U.S. was uncovered in Los Angeles. The estimated cost to the California treasury from this single black market enterprise was $7 million. Last November Arizona raised its cigarette tax by 40 cents a pack. In March of this year state revenue agents confiscated 7,400 cartons of cigarettes from a bootlegger's truck. An official was quoted as saying that the goal for fighting cigarette-smuggling was to "nip it in the bud." Tip of the iceberg might have been a more accurate description.

http://www.dental.uab.edu/patientInfo/smokers%20only/articles.html

Many more studies have been done to the same conclusion smokers pay more into the system than non smokers. Maybe they should just put a cap on lawsuits. That intern would reduce or cap insurance.

[Asher]

Originally posted by blackice
Free? in Alberta? No you pay for Healthcare by way of premiums and they are going up. Now for a province that has all that cash hummm yup they are showing the rest of the privinces how to gouge the public for sure. In Ontario and most all other provinces it is FREE. We pay nothing at all that is free.

No, it's not free, you pay for it with huge taxes and things like provincial sales tax. Nothing is free, that's why it's in quotes.

Alberta has no provincial sales tax. All other provinces do, that's where your healthcare premiums come from, among other things. Your provincial income tax is also significantly higher than ours.

We end up paying the same for healthcare as everyone else, but the federal government tries to tell other provinces otherwise: "See, Alberta pays SPECIFICALLY for health care! EVIL!" Don't see them mentioning the fact that it's because we don't have a sales tax and have really low income tax...

Here are some numbers for you to munch on: http://www.info.ede.org/business/bus...ntage-col.html