Stretching the Meaning of Sexual Harassment.

[Tingkai]

Well this is certainly interesting.

Bill 117 is an Government of Ontario Bill. Anne Cools is a federal senator. So why is Cools making a speech in the Canadian senate about a bill being considered by the Ontario government?

For those of you who are not Canadian, provincial laws are created by provincial governments. The Canadian senate only addresses federal laws. So it is unlikely that Cools would be making a speech about Bill 117 because this bill is outside her jurisdiction.

I checked Senator Cools site and the speech listed by Blackice is not on the site. Very curious.

Here's a link for those interested in the Bill 117.

http://www.newswire.ca/government/ontario/english/releases/December2000/19/c5062.html

[Tingkai]

By the way, Blackice is incorrect when he claims that Bill 117 is the Violence Against Women Act. Bill 117 became the Domestic Violence Protection Act and it applies only in the province of Ontario. It is not a Canadian federal law.

Do your homework Blackice.

[blackice]

I checked Senator Cools site and the speech listed by Blackice is not on the site. Very curious.

Not curious at all indeed it is just more more example of your half ass attempt to look smart and act like you know what you are talking about. That is quite obvious...

The section I copied and pasted is indeed on that page once the fool always the fool I guess. I would encourage people as I said to read and come to their own conclusions. Relying on this halfwit would have us all believing utter nonsense.

Senator Cools Liberal Senator representing Toronto

By the way, Blackice is incorrect when he claims that Bill 117 is the Violence Against Women Act. Bill 117 became the Domestic Violence Protection Act

That is what it is refered to for people that are in the cause. People like you doing a crash course to save face would not know that would you. Compare the laws to understand why. Include who was present and who spoke to the law makers before the laws were enacted.

Good to see you doing your homework besides the juvinile attempt to discredit to save face what have you learned about the ongoing abuse of this law? Which was the point of the thread to begin with So far nothing that I see

[Tingkai]

Where's the link to her speech, Blackice?

Here's the link to Cools' website.

http://www.sen.parl.gc.ca/acools/

Can anyone else find the speech. It was supposed to have been made in October 2000.

Look on the page listing Cools' speeches and there's nothing there. Curious, very curious.

[blackice]

Any rate it would do you good to read Anne's stuff and promote bill s4.

[Dis]

It's not worth getting upset over.

This is a man's world

If you men don't understand how great it is to be a man in the U.S. (or any nation for that matter) you need to get a clue.

I'm actually getting tired of men whining. Men have it so good.

when the line is crossed, I will speak up. But we are a long way from that.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Dissident
I'm actually getting tired of men whining.

Yup, and what really bugs me is when people like Blackice try to distort the facts to make themselves look like victims.

Look at all the garbage Blackice has posted (some of it his own stuff, some of it is created by others). People are using lies to fan the flames of hatred against feminists and women.

He ridicules and minimalizes the real-life experience of my ex-girlfriend and then turns around and trys to use his experience as proof that he is an expert and to gain sympathy.

"MY REAL LIFE CASE and thousands of others do not add up to your I know a guy," he wrote. And then later "He "claims" a guy he knows."

He won't even acknowlege that I was talking about a woman.

Blackice wrote: "the legal systems have simply deprived men of a voice."

He then wrote that women win 87 per cent of custody cases in Ontario. That means that 13 per cent of men are winning custody cases so obviously, men are not being deprived of their voice.

He also posted an article that claims "In Canada feminists were able to push through a law entitled "The Violence Against Women Act" (VAWA)."

Yup, blame the evil feminists. Except that Blackice is then forced to admit that there is no Canadian law called VAWA.

He tries to get around this mistake by claiming "VAWA in Canada is known as bill 117"

In Canada, a "bill" is a proposed law. It has no effect on the courts or the police. A bill is not an act. These are two seperate things. Everything in that article posted by Blackice is false.

Blackice then claims that people "in the cause" refer to the Domestic Violence Protection Act as being VAWA. Yup, that makes a lot of sense. I suppose people in the "cause" refer to the Charter of Rights as the Environmental Protection Act.

He then posted up a speech that is supposedly from Senator Anne Cools. "The section I copied and pasted is indeed on that page," Blackice wrote.

But he refuses to provide any link and the speech cannot be found on her website. Another lie.

It is possible that a federal senator made a speech, apparently in parliament (given that it starts "honourable members"), about a proposed provincial law, but it seems unlikely.

Blackice has offered us nothing but lies and extremely questionable "articles." If this is the best that the "men's movement" can do then lets hope they go the way of the Aryan Nation.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Actually men are incredibly discriminated in custody battles. Only 13% of them are won by men in Ontario? That is a staggeringly low figure, and indefensible.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Actually men are incredibly discriminated in custody battles. Only 13% of them are won by men in Ontario? That is a staggeringly low figure, and indefensible.

I can agree with that, but to say that men are being denied their voice, that's something different.

As well, what are the statistics from 20 years ago. Maybe things are actually improving. Then again, it could be getting worse.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Oh, I don't disagree.

I mistakenly thought that you believed that those low numbers were ok.

I agree that men 'have a voice'. I'm not defending blackice here... Hell, I haven't even read his posts yet .

[Tingkai]

From Statistics Canada:

"In 1998, 21,448 divorce cases involved a custody order for dependent children, representing 31% of the total number of divorces granted. These orders covered 37,851 children. It should be noted, however, that in many cases not involving a custody order, residential arrangements are negotiated by parents outside of the divorce proceedings; therefore, care should be taken in interpreting these statistics as representing all outcomes for children involved in divorce.

Among cases with a custody order, custody was granted to the wife in 60% of these cases, far ahead of joint custody to both husband and wife (30%) or to the husband only (10%)."


That looks pretty unbalanced, but Blackice claimed that "89% of all men lose custody of their children."

He is obviously wrong, again. Only 60 per cent of men lose custody.

It is possible that he is using old statistics. If that is the case, then courts have become less willing to deprive men of custody and the scales are moving towards a more balanced state.

[blackice]

Originally posted by Dissident
It's not worth getting upset over.[q]

Having rights taken away is worth getting upset over yes I believe it is. Men having to put up with bias in the courts is also yes.

This is a man's world

Where in the work place?

If you men don't understand how great it is to be a man in the U.S. (or any nation for that matter) you need to get a clue.

It is great to be a person yes

I'm actually getting tired of men whining. Men have it so good.

This simply shows limited exposure to the facts.

[q]when the line is crossed, I will speak up. But we are a long way from that.

What line is that your children being taken away?

[blackice]

Yup, and what really bugs me is when people like Blackice try to distort the facts to make themselves look like victims

Distort until this thread you had no idea obviously now you are an expert and call facts distorted to which you have no clue...

Look at all the garbage Blackice has posted (some of it his own stuff, some of it is created by others). People are using lies to fan the flames of hatred against feminists and women

Garbage,lies,hatred against women you are a mixed up little boy ...

He ridicules and minimalizes the real-life experience of my ex-girlfriend and then turns around and trys to use his experience as proof that he is an expert and to gain sympathy

I ridiculded your ignorance and claims to be an expert based on one incident. Sympathy not awareness yes to the issues and to your obvious uninformed comments. Five years as I said studing this not some past relationship I believe I have somewhat more experience than you have even tried to show.

He won't even acknowlege that I was talking about a woman

My mistake I was tired at the time. You use this as an extention to what the facts? Something I have yet to see from you at all.

Blackice wrote: "the legal systems have simply deprived men of a voice."

Being removed from your children and home without as much as proof of guilt you call this a voice?

He then wrote that women win 87 per cent of custody cases in Ontario. That means that 13 per cent of men are winning custody cases so obviously, men are not being deprived of their voice.

You minimalize the obvious here 13% wow I guess that means the mass of men are what horrible Dads/ Do not have rights to access their children? I am sure you will come up with some reson to justify why Dads become visitors to thier own children.

He also posted an article that claims "In Canada feminists were able to push through a law entitled "The Violence Against Women Act" (VAWA)."

Yes they did only feminists groups were their to point out thier views, no "mens groups" were heard at all. This is the same as the VAWA in everyway. Again do your homework.

Yup, blame the evil feminists. Except that Blackice is then forced to admit that there is no Canadian law called VAWA.

Feminists used now proven distortion of the facts to push their agenda through.Admit what? I made clear my what I was talking about.

He tries to get around this mistake by claiming "VAWA in Canada is known as bill 117"

Mistake? How many provinces have similar laws? You have not got a clue do you? They are all refered to as VAWA for many obvious reasons.

In Canada, a "bill" is a proposed law. It has no effect on the courts or the police. A bill is not an act. These are two seperate things. Everything in that article posted by Blackice is false.

False heh you read so much The bill s4 is on the table and to be passed if not already. Why was this bill nessary again you read soooo much

Blackice then claims that people "in the cause" refer to the Domestic Violence Protection Act as being VAWA. Yup, that makes a lot of sense.

They do not that you would know so far you prove you can debate an issue you know nothing about by quick reads... It makes total sense to someone that has looked at the issues longer an 2 hours, like yourself. Again the reason for calling it that is obvious...read.

He then posted up a speech that is supposedly from Senator Anne Cools. "The section I copied and pasted is indeed on that page," Blackice wrote.

The link provided on top of that information is where it came from Amazingly it is the first thing on the page this shows how indepth your facts are you can not even follow a link and read. This is a perfect example of your "experience and knowledge" of the situation.

[q]But he refuses to provide any link and the speech cannot be found on her website. Another lie.[q/]
again you show your true colors ignoring the link and calling someone a lier yet it is there...Anne Cools should be studied by you she is one of the few females in politics standing up for mens rights.

Blackice has offered us nothing but lies and extremely questionable "articles." If this is the best that the "men's movement" can do then lets hope they go the way of the Aryan Nation

Lies, "questionable articles" it is painfully obvious you know little of the situation let alone read any article...speaking of lies and halftruths you take that honor hands down. Heh I hope not your ignorance of facts shows you make it painfully clear we need these "fighters of men and childrens rights" How you can make such a moronic statement after showing a minute 10% of men have anything to do with thier own children sums up your involvement so far and your total ignorance of the facts.

[blackice]

From Statistics Canada:

"In 1998, 21,448 divorce cases involved a custody order for dependent children, representing 31% of the total number of divorces granted. These orders covered 37,851 children. It should be noted, however, that in many cases not involving a custody order, residential arrangements are negotiated by parents outside of the divorce proceedings; therefore, care should be taken in interpreting these statistics as representing all outcomes for children involved in divorce.

You go on to ignore this misleading at best your final comment.

Among cases with a custody order, custody was granted to the wife in 60% of these cases, far ahead of joint custody to both husband and wife (30%) or to the husband only (10%)."

Now study the facts this was 1998 near the begining of "joint custody facts" presented by "mens groups". Prior t that what was the facts? You have no idea. "joint custody laws" are relitively new in ordering them. In most cases the woman has the "primary residence and control of the child. The man has the right to see the child. So 60% to 10% oh that is good again 60% of all men with kids are bad fathers? or have no rights with their own children how could any sane person say this is good or just...

That looks pretty unbalanced, but Blackice claimed that "89% of all men lose custody of their children."

Yes I do "joint custody" does not mean "custody" you once again simply show your ignorance here...you do that well it would appear we have be shown your true qualifications on this subject...let alone your major...

He is obviously wrong, again. Only 60 per cent of men lose custody

Not wrong at all read some more maybe lets say in a few years you will understand what "custody" is..means...

It is possible that he is using old statistics. If that is the case, then courts have become less willing to deprive men of custody and the scales are moving towards a more balanced state.

Old statistics are ones like what you pulled from a quick Google search...yes slowly as mens groups present the facts and women who are tired of the feminist mantra like Cools. They have made a huge difference to justice. Right now the norm is still in favor of the women the right to parent is a hot issue. Womens groups walk out of debates and hearings if mens groups show up to present thier side. That is common yet the reality is that until resently mens groups were not allowed to be represented.

The right of a parent to parent their child should be the right of any parent it is not that way and men are the "fall guys" Children have a right to their fathers this is what is motivating the change much to the dislike of the feminists. The rights of the child is being debated and motivating the courts to change this fact is being pushed by mens groups not feminists. "Shared parenting" is being fought tooth and nail by these feminist's.

Now that you have thread jacked the topic was, is the changes being sought by some feminists to the sexual harassment laws. My bet is you have not even read the topic and or done one of your simple Google searchs to claim the "expert" status and knowledge...

I bet you do not even know what PAS is your ability to debate is good. Your knowledge of the facts, and ignorance to them when staring you in the face on the other hand tells all... 10% nationaly wow that is justice, ayrians indeed

[Tingkai]

I have never said this of anyone within the Apolyton community, but I will say that Blackice is nothing but a baldface liar trying to create hate against women.

I've wondered sometimes if I have been too harsh on some of the Apolyton members, but I do not question my attitude towards Blackice. He claims to have studied this issue for five years, and yet in this thread, which he created, he has done nothing but print blatent lies.

Blackice is an idiot if he thinks he can get away with these lies. Apolyton consists of dozens of extremely intelligent and knowledge members (and probably an equal number of fools). If you try to post lies, those lies will be exposed.

I know this is quite a flame, but almost everything that Blackice has posted has been proven to be false. The one exception is Cools' speech. I cannot prove that she never said these words, but it is unlikely that a federal senator would comment on a provincial bill.

Spare us your lies Blackice.