confessions of a bigot

[Sirotnikov]

DM, All I can say is this.

A) You're way over confident of your self righteousness.

B) You're way too orthodox about religions. You learnt about the basic rules of a certain religion and then think that every person of that religion is the same and blindly accepts every such right.

Well, you've got another thing coming.

I'm jewish both in ethnicity and religion, and you don't see me going around suggesting people be stoned for lack of faith. Infact, even orthodox jews have overgrown that.

So stop supporting yourself by rules which no longer apply to the people.

And if Kaak says that some christian moral doesn't apply to him - this goes. You can't argue "no you're a christian so this is what you are supposed to believe".


As for the rest of you, most of you are too quick to kick in the old stereotypes.

Kaak himself said he isn't very religious, but you keep arguing with him like you would with CivNation.

Kaak himself said he doesn't hate or fear gay people, yet you try to froce him into that stereotype too.

You people are far more close minded that he is.

I feel like I'm arguing for his p.o.v. but I'm not. I'm arguing for a serious discussion, which some people obviously can't have.

[Giancarlo]

I even think linking homosexuality to pedophila or child abuse is going way too far... not even I would go that far. Sure I condemn homosexuality according to my sig (completely based on my own reasons, I am atheist so religion doesn't matter despite what some think) but I don't go that far.... as far as I am concerned.

[devilmunchkin]

no. i disagree: self righteous would be me saying "eww..kaak is a beastial gay hater..i'm better than you because i do this" we're not talking about me. i haven't said anything about me. i haven't said i'm better than kaak...i'm just telling him he's wrong and have done so by pointing out passages out of his bible.

You're way too orthodox about religions. You learnt about the basic rules of a certain religion and then think that every person of that religion is the same and blindly accepts every such right.

why? just cause i quoted the bible? brotha pleeeeeeeeeeeeease. what is the scripture? it's the Word. if he is christian, shouldn't the Word have some effect on him? Shouldn't he concede? It's not like i'm dicussing the validity of the sacraments. I'm discussing whether or not he's justified in his self proclaimed dislike of gays and since he doges logic like there's no tomorrow, what else can i do but show him Law???? It's not my fault that as an athiest i see your bible as one equal book...i dont' pick and choose what i listen to.

df: i point out Judges because it's canon. As far as i know, the Crusades arn't part of the Bible.


It's obvious to me that Kaak doesn't care about improving himself. It's now quite obvious to me that perhaps kaak feels threatened by the influx or perhaps "uprising" (although i'm not sure if i'm choosing a good word here) of gays both in his area (our school) and on this board. They're becoming more vocal...
it makes him uncomfortable. He'd like this to be known.
He doesn't care what anyone else thinks.

So, fine Kaak...we've presented you with logical argument after argument and yet you still arrogantly shrug your shoulders. I think we've all said what we can say to you without begining to repeat ourselves. At this point, it's rather a moot point to even say anything because you just come out with some statement stemming from your obstinance to admit your wrong and start trying to change your views. Now i see why you work with computers...
and not people.


like i originally said: what a pity.

[Giancarlo]

DM, I am an idiot when it comes to the bible... but isn't there some line condemning homosexuality as a sin? I really dunno... as I base my beliefs on the existentialist movement.

[David Floyd]

DM, can you reconcile modern Christianity, which I would define as post-Jesus, emphasis on the NT books written by Paul and various Disciples, with the Old Testament?

If not, I would maintain that the Old Testament was written for a differnet people living under a different law in a different set of circumstances.

[August Borms]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison


What kind of stupid sh*t is that? Whatever goes on between two consenting adults is no one else's business. Unless you haven't noticed in paedophilia, one of the partners is abused and has no choice in the matter.

Your connections between homosexuality and paedophilia are worrying to show the least, and expose a great hole in your character and integrity

And why do you link paedophilia to child abuse?
That's just as sick as linking homophilia to gay rape

Not all paedophiles are rapists you know

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by devilmunchkin
no. i disagree: self righteous would be me saying "eww..kaak is a beastial gay hater..i'm better than you because i do this" we're not talking about me. i haven't said anything about me. i haven't said i'm better than kaak...i'm just telling him he's wrong and have done so by pointing out passages out of his bible.

Well, let's just say that some of your posts seemed like they were coming from a patroznizing perspective.

you've already decided that disliking people because of their actions is wrong, while he is trying to make a discussion of this. you have posted your views in a way which hasn't promoted discussion.

why? just cause i quoted the bible? brotha pleeeeeeeeeeeeease. what is the scripture? it's the Word. if he is christian, shouldn't the Word have some effect on him? Shouldn't he concede? It's not like i'm dicussing the validity of the sacraments.

well, you pretty much said that he should confide himself to one of the defintions of christianity you know, in a previous post.

that's what made me decide you are fighting stereotypes, and not him.

I'm discussing whether or not he's justified in his self proclaimed dislike of gays and since he doges logic like there's no tomorrow, what else can i do but show him Law????

why not presenting other arguements, after he said he doesn't care for bible law as much as you think.

i for instance find the "who cares as long as they don't hurt anyone non-consentually" arguement pretty good.

I would use it against anyone trashing BDSM.

t's not my fault that as an athiest i see your bible as one equal book...i dont' pick and choose what i listen to.

Yes, it is your fault.

If you fight a person's views you fight his views. Not a generalization of them that you happen to know.

It's obvious to me that Kaak doesn't care about improving himself.

i disagree.

he wouldn't have paid so much interest to this forum otherwise.

It's now quite obvious to me that perhaps kaak feels threatened by the influx or perhaps "uprising" (although i'm not sure if i'm choosing a good word here) of gays both in his area (our school) and on this board.

I again disagree.

He hasn't seemed threatened at all, and has no troubles talking to any of the gays here.

They're becoming more vocal...
it makes him uncomfortable. He'd like this to be known.
He doesn't care what anyone else thinks.

Now you contradict yourself.

If he doesn't care, he wouldn't like his voice to be heard since he wouldn't have cared.

So, fine Kaak...we've presented you with logical argument after argument and yet you still arrogantly shrug your shoulders.

Most people presented arguements not relating to him.

The only on topic discussion that was here is when BFB said : "what they do is in consent and doesn't hurt anyone" and Kaak replied "it still grosses me out".

So it didn't convince him, but it was still a discussion on topic.

Let's put it this way.
I have a certain fetish. Some people may think it's wierd and dislike me. I accept that. Some people will think it's too wierd. Ok. It's their right. As long as they don't treat me less than a human being, I accept their right to dislike me.

I think we've all said what we can say to you without begining to repeat ourselves.

No, we're already repeating ourselves

like i originally said: what a pity.

Who cares?
there are many people who are indifferent to gay people

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Assur


And why do you link paedophilia to child abuse?
That's just as sick as linking homophilia to gay rape

Not all paedophiles are rapists you know

I imagine it would take, oh 5 minutes for the neo-liberals here to blame you of pedohpilia

Then they'll start convincing you why it's wrong and why you're a bigot, even though you never claimed anything about it.

[Lodi]

The Bible [within the Old Testament] states 'Thou shalt kill the man who sleeps with another man' in the same book as the Ten Commandments, but that is within the Old Testament. That is not universally accepted by all Christians to treat gays as if they were inhuman. Maybe it is mentioned elsewhere and possibly someone else can get us a quote for it.

[MrFun]

Pedophilia is not related to sexual orientation--it is related to a psychological disorder that is also rightly seen as criminal behavior. Within heterosexual, homosexual, and bisexual groups, you will find some people who are pedophiles.

There is nothing criminal, diseased, or flawed about expression of physical, sexual intimacy between two mutually consenting adults just because they are of the same gender.

[Kaak]

Siro: beautiful post.

She just has trouble realizing a few basic premises, even after repeated attempts to help her.

1) I wasn't basing any argument on scripture.
2) Most CHRISTIANS do not follow the old testament. You must have paid attention in OT class, but missed that particular point. New Testament has some sway, but different groups of Christians see it as having very different meanings. There are groups that take the words to be the Word, ignoring anything else. There are those that interpret the Word to be a set of metaphors with an educational purpose. And, then there are those christians whom have an even more liberal reading. The fact remains, as a christian, my relationship with god is mine. not yours.

A non-believer telling a believer how they should relate to god is completely rediculous. THAT is why you are a fool.

[Kaak]

Pedophilia is not related to sexual orientation--it is related to a psychological disorder that is also rightly seen as criminal behavior.

Psychological disorder? How so? (can't wait to hear this...) Is it unnatural? Criminal behavior? sodomy is criminal behavior in Texas...

[Sirotnikov]

Psychological disorder? How so? (can't wait to hear this...) Is it unnatural? Criminal behavior? sodomy is criminal behavior in Texas...

That's the whole point.
It becomes a little tough to argue against pedophelia if it is made in such way that no one is hurt.

like fantasy for instance.

Or say age limits. How well do they apply?

I know some people who are considered minors, but are more sexually and psychologically adult than many grownups I know (polytoners included).

I'm not taking a stand, just making an observation. please don't attack, but rather respond.


Kaak, thanks.

I find it that often I understand so well how people are usually misunderstood or took for granted.

Furthermore, it bugs me when those who claim for free speech try to disallow it on taboo subjects. Previously it was disallowed to talk about gays at all. not it is only disallowed to talk about gays being bad.

as long as no harm is done or called for, i have no problem with anything.

[MrFun]

It also used to be illegal for women to vote.

It also used to be illegal for two people of different races to marry.

It also used to be illegal to desegregate public buildings that were segregated based on race.

Texas current laws of sodomy is based on bigotry and ignorance. Just as there have been other laws based on bigotry and ignorance.

The American Psychology Association and the American Medical Association declared in the 70's, that homosexuality is not an illness or disease.

[Kaak]

Homosexuality has to do with sexual orientation.
Paedophilia has to do with sexual orientation (oriented towards age rather than gender)

maybe someday the gov't will realize that it is not a disease, but merely a condition, genetic in nature. Maybe then they will lift the statutory rape laws and the sodomites and child abuses can together run around in elation at the end of their oppression!