Is it time for USA to have a 3rd party?

[axi]

Wraith, tell me please, is there any correlation between Texas and reactionaries?

The Socialist Party never really managed to gain a large following, but their entire platform is current policy thanks their influence.

ROTFLMAO!

[Wraith]

--"ROTFLMAO!"

This is from one of Friedman's books...

SOCIALIST PLATFORM OF 1928

(NOTE: Herewith the economic planks of the Socialist party platform of 1928, along with an indication in parenthesis of how these planks have fared. The list that follows includes every economic plank, but not the full language of each.)

1."Nationalization of our natural resources, beginning with the coal mines and water sites, particularly at Boulder Dam and Muscle Shoals." (Boulder Dam, renamed Hoover Dam, and Muscle Shoals are now both federal government projects.)
2."A publicly owned giant power system under which the federal government shall cooperate with the states and municipalities in the distribution of electrical energy to the people at cost." (Tennessee Valley Authority.)
3."National ownership and democratic management of railroads and other means of transportation and communication." (Railroad passenger service is completely nationalized through Amtrak. Some freight service is nationalized through Conrail. The FCC controls communications by telephone, telegraph, radio, and television.)
4."An adequate national program for flood control, flood relief, reforestation, irrigation, and reclamation." (Government expenditures for these purposes are currently in the many [non-adjusted] billions of dollars.)
5."Immediate government relief of the unemployed by the extension of all public works and a program of long range planning of public works ..." (In the 1930s, WPA and PWA were a direct counterpart; now, a wide variety of other programs are.) "All persons thus employed to be engaged at hours and wages fixed by bona-fide labor unions." (The Davis-Bacon and Walsh-Healey Acts required contractors with government contracts to pay "prevailing wages," generally interpreted as highest union wages.)
6."Loans to states and municipalities without interest for the purpose of carrying on public works and the taking of such other measures as will lessen widespread misery." (Federal grants in aid to states and local municipalities currently total [non-adjusted] tens of billions of dollars a year.)
7."A system of unemployment insurance." (Part of Social Security system)
8."The nation-wide extension of public employment agencies in cooperation with city federations of labor." (U.S. Employment Service and affiliated state employment services administer a network of about 2,500 [in 1980] local employment offices.)
9."A system of health and accident insurance and of old age pensions as well as unemployment insurance." (Part of Social Security system.)
10."Shortening the workday" and "Securing to every worker a rest period of no less than two days in each week." (Legislated by wages and hours laws that require overtime for more than forty hours of work per week.)
11."Enacting of an adequate federal anti-child labor amendment." (Not achieved as amendment, but essence incorporated in various legislative acts.)
12."Abolition of the brutal exploitation of convicts under the contract system and substitution of a cooperative organization of industries in penitentiaries and workshops for the benefit of convicts and their dependents." (Party achieved, partly not.)
13."Increase of taxation on high income levels, of corporation taxes and inheritance taxes, the proceeds to be used for old age pensions and other forms of social insurance." (In 1928, highest personal income tax rate, 25 percent; in 1978, 70 percent; in 1928, corporate tax rate, 12 percent; in 1978, 48 percent; in 1928, top federal estate tax rate, 20 percent; in 1978, 70 percent.)
14."Appropriation by taxation of the annual rental value of all land held for speculation." (Not achieved in this form, but property taxes have risen drastically.)

You'll notice that some of those have become more the case since this was written. #1, for instance, as Clinton vastly increased the amount of land owned by the federal government during his term.

Wraith
"You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence."
-- Charles Austin Beard

[Bereta_Eder]

It depends on where you stand in the political spectrum I guess.

Claiming that the US political-economic system is based on socialist values sounds pretty absurd if you compare what the european system is like for example

Of course not being worked to death and having some worker's rights does remains a legacy of socialism. Be thankful



And really, what's going on in Austin? It seems to be a world of its own.

Or is it Texas like that?

Has extra-liberalism grown so strong roots because of some sort of resentment for the yankee federal government?

[DarkCloud]

All countries could always use antoher political party to spice things up and keep the other parties on their toes.

What I suggest is a Political Centrist party... a party that holds parts of all parties platforms... and yet opposes each bitterly (sort of like the Fascists !!!!! ) But not nationalistic or racist at all.

Centrism is the future- when everyone is given an equal chance at schooling to acquire wealth(democrats/liberals), but there is NO welfare or help for the poor who don't work (republicans/conservatives)!!!

It is much mroe complicated, but all in all, it is hard to explain.

[Shi Huangdi]

"The Prohibition Party managed to get the Constitution changed (failed experiment that was, but still)."

At least in those days such people used the proper methods- if it were to be enacted in modern times Congress would just ban it on the grounds that beer is sometimes transported across state lines....

[Jac de Molay]

Voter apathy is what's killing third-party possibility. How does anyone expect to gather the needed grassroots support to build one if you can't get Billy Bob and the other 50 % of us americans off the couch to vote for their local city council.
Put down the potato chips, turn off the tv, and vote. Maybe then we can talk about third-party building. Apathy allowed this scum-sucking influence and power to happen. Outrage is the remedy.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by DetroitDave
Voter apathy is what's killing third-party possibility. How does anyone expect to gather the needed grassroots support to build one if you can't get Billy Bob and the other 50 % of us americans off the couch to vote for their local city council.

It's actually worse than that. 50% is the turn out for presidential elections; off-year elections tend in most places to have a turnout more like 20-25%, unless there's a hotly contested race or controversial referendum on the ballot.

That, however, is actually good for third parties, as the Greens have been showing in Western states. The turnout for local elections is so small that the votes of the party faithful, even in a small party, count for lots more. Of course, there's not much power in a single city-council seat, but if you win enough of them you can be perceived as a "real party," which helps tremendously when you start spoiling for bigger prizes. I think there's a perception in the US that third parties don't expect or even want to win elections and just use elections to publicize their pet causes. Actually electing people, at any level, can help dislodge that prejuidice.

[Wraith]

--"Claiming that the US political-economic system is based on socialist values sounds pretty absurd if you compare what the european system is like for example"

Well, we aren't as socialist as y'all yet, no. However, as I posted above, the old Socialist Party platform pretty much is the standard policy these days. I like pointing that out to people who call me a radical What is considered "centrist" today is considerd such only because of the absolutely crappy job our schools do teaching history.

--"And really, what's going on in Austin? It seems to be a world of its own."

Austin is pretty much a world of it's own down here. However, that's pretty irrelevant, since I was a Libertarian before I moved here.

--"Voter apathy is what's killing third-party possibility."

Traditional non-voters are about a third of the Libertarian Party, actually. A lot of people are fed up with the Demopublican vs. Republicrat "choice" and don't vote. When they find out about other options they start again. Third parties are the best chance of increasing voter turn out.

--"Actually electing people, at any level, can help dislodge that prejuidice."

The LP has been doing this for a while, but it hasn't really helped (We've got a majority on the Leadville city council, for instance). It's that whole media bias thing again. The majority of the press corps is even further left than DC, so they have this little problem with people saying government can't fix everything. And they seem to deal with problems the way a lot of people do; pretend it isn't there and hope it goes away.

Wraith
Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.

[Bereta_Eder]

Yeah, I know what your evangelion is Wraith

But answer this, I think it's valid:

Has ultra-liberalism grown so strong roots in the South because of some sort of resentment for the yankee federal government?

[Wraith]

--"Has ultra-liberalism grown so strong roots in the South because of some sort of resentment for the yankee federal government?"

That's probably part of it, but I don't think it's much of a factor. Some of the stronger libertarian states (like Colorado) hardly count as "southern" (although the western states have their own reasons for resentment, especially after Clinton).

Although the US history classes here tend to be a little bit less biased than the yankee states. The whole "War of Northern Agression" vs. "Civil War" thing helping to keep a bit more perspective on government actions

Wraith
"Every revolution evaporates and leaves behind only the slime of a new bureaucracy."
-- Franz Kafka