This Guy Restores Some Of My Optimism

[Comrade Tribune]

Come on; before they successfully build an ICBM, I am going to fly to the Moon...

[Dis]

supposedly N. Korea has a medium range missle able to get to the western U.S. Hoover Dam anyone? target? yeah

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by paiktis22
We need to look at concrete and a vast number of statistics to determine the level of (if any) military overstretch of the US at the present.

As quick pointers your defence spending is now at 12% of your GDP (whereas Greece's for example is at 6.4% and is already the highest in western Europe) and your internal defence expediture has doubled (although this is understandably not a clear indice since you had almost no need for internal defence before).

source for 12%? IIRC the entire US federal budget is barely 20% of GDP, and most of that is civilian. Dept of Defense budget is about 3-4% of GDP now. You can up the number if you throw in CIA, Coast Guard, etc, but not much.

Internal defence is increasing dramatically, as you point out, but is still much smaller than DOD budget.

LOTM

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune


Iran didn´t attack you, ever. They just want to be left alone. The Bush government obviously intends to use 9/11 as a pretext to attack whomever they want.

Iran just wants to be left alone. Yeah, right.
1. Iranian meddling in post-Taliban Afganistan, sending arms and advisors to warlord Ismail Khan, apparently encouraging him to establish his "emirate" independent of central (Kharzai) govt. Sending arms and agents even into central Afganistan, in Helmand and Orozgun provinces, until chased out by forces of enraged Kandahar governor Shirzai, with US help.
2. Continued support for and close ties with Hezbollah, giving Iran big say in Lebanon politics, and helpig to keep their "ally" Syria in line. Support for Hezbollah attacks on Israel, which have continued even after Israeli withdrawl from Lebanon.
3. Arms boat to Palestine

LOTM

[Dr Strangelove]

Say, are those the monitoring devices they use in "Dark Angel"?

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


source for 12%? IIRC the entire US federal budget is barely 20% of GDP, and most of that is civilian. Dept of Defense budget is about 3-4% of GDP now. You can up the number if you throw in CIA, Coast Guard, etc, but not much.

Internal defence is increasing dramatically, as you point out, but is still much smaller than DOD budget.

LOTM

Yup mea culpa. US defence is at 3% of GDP.

[Bereta_Eder]

still defence expenditure has risen by 12%

take a look at that chart:

[Bereta_Eder]

Apolyton is damn slow now

see the rise of the curb. US wants Europe to share the burden.

If it's about terrorism it's all well and good. But Europe will propably be resistant to finance the US pursuit of its own interests which the US really does try to mask it under the label «terrorism». It is an assesment of interests.

For example Greece would very reluctantly go along since the US is backing Turkey's claims to the Aegean (or does very little to stop them).

The rest of Europe will also be reluctant since there is a clear difference of interests too. Europe must feel it is also in danger of those the US labels freely as «terrorists» or it will be resistant.

If the US keeps pressing and the EU keeps refusing the NATO (between US and EU) cohesion will drop.

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by Dissident
supposedly N. Korea has a medium range missle able to get to the western U.S. Hoover Dam anyone? target? yeah

I read an in-depth article on this in the Neue Züricher Zeitung (Conservative Swiss Paper). It takes the North Coreans about 4 days (in full sight of US satellites) to prepare the launch of their med range missile. Talk about sudden surprise attacks!

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
1. Iranian meddling in post-Taliban Afganistan, sending arms and advisors ...

You mean, the US don´t meddle in post-Taliban Afghanistan, sending arms and advisours?

Ah, yes, I forgot, you have a divine right to do so.

2. Continued support for and close ties with Hezbollah, giving Iran big say in Lebanon politics, and helpig to keep their "ally" Syria in line. Support for Hezbollah attacks on Israel, which have continued even after Israeli withdrawl from Lebanon.

Wait a moment; since when is Israel a NATO member? And what have they ever done for us?

3. Arms boat to Palestine

Dito.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune
Ah, yes, I forgot, you have a divine right to do so.

Close. We have the permission of the internationally recognized government in the region.

Wait a moment; since when is Israel a NATO member? And what have they ever done for us?

Isreal is a Western ally. What does Iran have to offer us that would justify selling them out?

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by paiktis22
We need to look at concrete and a vast number of statistics to determine the level of (if any) military overstretch of the US at the present.

As quick pointers your defence spending is now at 12% of your GDP (whereas Greece's for example is at 6.4% and is already the highest in western Europe) and your internal defence expediture has doubled (although this is understandably not a clear indice since you had almost no need for internal defence before).

12% of Federal budget, not GDP, unless there's 7 trillion or so that disappeared.

[DinoDoc]

That I'd like to see.

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
12% of Federal budget, not GDP, unless there's 7 trillion or so that disappeared.

That would definately be quite a feat, though, considering that we've only maged to loose a few billion here and there so far.

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
We have the permission of the internationally recognized government in the region.

After you have strong-armed the international community into recognizing them. Not convincing. If Iran succeeds in toppling your puppets, perhaps the international community would change its mind again? Remains to be seen.

Isreal is a Western ally. What does Iran have to offer us that would justify selling them out?

What does Israel have to offer us Euros? Iran has oil.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune
After you have strong-armed the international community into recognizing them.

We didn't need to convince them to recognize Karzai's regime, by all acounts the Euro's did it quite readily and are currently contributing money of thier own volition to help prop his government up and rebuild the war torn country. I'd actually like to see evidence that strong arming, as you so dutifully called it, really took place.

Not convincing.

I don't aim to convince starry eyed dreamers who choose to see every issue through the rose colored glasses of "The US is always wrong" in order to allow themselves to understand complex issues.

What does Israel have to offer us Euros?

Influence in the region. It would really help matters if you would learn from the faliures of the USSR.