Should I Join a Fraternity?

[Bereta_Eder]

Why do you name your fraternities after greek letters? anyone knows?

[devilmunchkin]

lol: he's too busy to give an intelligent answer as he's too busy getting "a$$" as he so deems it from girls at his house that would have never looked his way if he wasn't in a frat or if they weren't.
kaak: i've had psychology too....for more years than you can imagine. anyone with a brain knows it's not a choice. try reading computer boy....for fun even....might do you some good.
and notice how he's all for meeting floyd..but he so elegantly brushes off any notion of meeting me..."the liberalist" and someone who is so easily placed in a stereotype that apparently is displeasing to the image he wants to uphold ...
and image that you denied wanting or having the first time we spoke..
well well..how the tables have turned.

[Asher]

You think anyone in their right mind would choose to be gay?

Well, why wouldn't they?
Blacks choose to be black, too. Subconcious or not. I learned about it in my KKK Psychology class.

(For the dense, I was drawing a parallel to Kaak taking Baylor's Psychology classes and knowing about homosexuality)

[Logical Realist]

A subconscious choice

Now you're movingin from newspeak to doublespeak. So it's "subconscious" but it's a choice. Yeah like reflexes and bodily functions.

Also keep in mind it means that God made them "choose" to be gay subconsciously; by setting up the initial conditions. God made the sinner sin and then sends them to hell for it. How just.

And again you assume it requires therapy and must be fixed. Which is ridiculous. Because if anyone is in need of therapy; it's you.

[Kaak]

okay, here goes...

DM:

baylor is a beautiful place for those, apparently like yourself, that feed into the clone like facade

Ummm...by clone like, i'm assuming you mean something that is or is very near equal. You obviously don't know much about my fraternity. I could introduce you to people that are as different as night and day. That is one of the reasons that i picked the group i did. I don't believe in cookie cutter fraternities any more than you do.

I, also, never claimed that baylor was a true projection of the outside world. In fact, i would affirm that it is quite different, thus the reason I chose to come here.

Who are any of you to say that frat keg parties are less of a sin than homosexuality?

Hmmm...what other people do is there business. I don't drink. I don't smoke. I like to dance, but I don't believe dancing is a sin. Also, drinking is something which can be done in a moment of weakness (I say this even though i have never fallen to it). One can be truly sorry for it, repent and be redeemed. Living as a practicing homosexual is living in sin without remorse, which i'm sure you know after so many bible studies, is unforgivable.

I also never said that jocks should be paid. Personally, I think it undermines the game. I don't, however, claim that my opinion matters.

I don't recall making any assumptions about "your kind" or that you hang out with them. And I actually would have guessed that you were more of a watcher. As for blindness, I'm not sure how that is applicable to me.

Kicking a person out for this or that can obviously be part of your religion...that doesn't make it right.

Wow. That is a tough statement. RIGHT. Who is to say what is right and wrong? You? me? I'm a christian, remember. I think god is the definative source of right and wrong, so therefore, kicking someone out because they are WRONG according to the Word would seem justifiable.

OK..fine...would you ever date someone not in a sorority

I've dated lots of girls that aren't in sororities. My last GF wasn't, and we dated for 5 months. As for jerseys, i'm not really sure that you can claim that as unique. Do you not also see black people in groups, asians in groups, latinos in groups without much crossover? If you claim to watch, than i'm sure you have. Hmmm...and parties being invite only? geez, i don't think we have any invite only parties. we have a couple for members and dates only per semester, but 95% of our parties are open to everyone, and you are more than welcome to come!

You also say that you aren't quick to generalize, but then you make broad statements about sorities, and EVEN fraternities because you lived under a few sorority girls? Wow...All the groups are quite different, and to make assumptions about many from one is a logical fallacy.

You wouldn't be caught dead with me cause of this image you are so certain i possess.....

Wow! another assumption! I wouldn't have any problem being seen with you, albeit that it might not be at common grounds ( i don't like coffee, and i don't drink anything with caffeine) And I would love to have a long conversation about some of the social constructs you have built up...it would make a great paper

Logical Realist:

Hers seem to be on the mark and her condemnations made for good reasons.

On what grounds can you quantify this? Are you just making an illogical assumption too?

A person's sex life, even if it were a matter of choice does not affect you

I don't recall saying that it did. and while I agree with you on a singular basis, it is a sociological fact that no group can exist without affecting its surroundings. Granted, it sounds good for you to say that, but it doesn't really hold water on any sizable scale.

Do other animals, ven chimps our closest relatives choose to be attracted to females? What then makes you think mankind is an exception?

I think that a heterosexual disposition is hereditary and inate. However, animals aren't really comprable to humans because there sex drive is much greater, and more indiscriminate.

As for the nature of god and his omniscence, how could it be possible for one that is not omniscient to understand one that is? they would exist on two completely seperate planes of thought. If you claim to be able to understand God, then you are a much greater fool than I.

Also your reasoning is bsed on the premise that two wrongs make a right.

Great. right and wrong again. We have an irreconcilable difference of definitions of right and wrong if I am christian, and you are not.

And blacks still get harrassed in the deep south.

lol...ask someone from georgia if texas is in the deep south...and no, people make no CHOICES about their racial background. I think all racial discrimination is wrong.

as for your next post: no one said anything about hating gays, i merely said that they weren't conducive to the enviroment aforementioned. Thanks for putting words in my mouth!

After your post, it is quite clear that you chose a poor nick...your points were poorly thought out, and unfounded in any clear logic.

Asher: Christianity won't show you the way, but psychotherapy might...

You think anyone in their right mind would choose to be gay?

Nope, i don't think that gay people are in their right minds

Pak: fraternities and sororities for one reason or another are in what is called the "greek system." I have no idea why...

[Kaak]

kaak: i've had psychology too....for more years than you can imagine.

More years than i can imagine? now that is funny. Let's see...I am a fifth year. I was a psychology major for 7 semesters (plus summer school). Who do you think has had more classes?

and notice how he's all for meeting floyd..but he so elegantly brushes off any notion of meeting me..."

tisk tisk...jumping to conclusions before i had a chance to respond...

well well..how the tables have turned.

have you heard that saying about assumptions?

Asher: only a moron would compare being black to being gay...

Logical: by choice i mean that it is not a hereditary and irreprable condition. their are many many psychological disorders that one must "Choose" to cure themselves of...pick up a psych book...

Because if anyone is in need of therapy; it's you.

Nice ad hominem...when logic doesn't work, go for the fallacies!

[lightblue]

Originally posted by Kaak
I think that a heterosexual disposition is hereditary and inate. However, animals aren't really comprable to humans because there sex drive is much greater, and more indiscriminate.

Sure animals have more sex than humans . That's why most animals only **** during one specific time of the year. The only exceptions are other species with a high brain:body mass ratio and few natural enemies such as the bonobo or dolphins.

Aside from that, I thought that discrimination on the grounds of race/religion/sexuality was outlawed in the States?

[Kaak]

*sigh*

Sure animals have more sex than humans

I never EVER said that animals had more sex tha humans. I said they have a greater sex drive. An animal in heat is quite uncontrollable and indesicriminatory. If you are going to try and prove me wrong, or prove that I misspoke, at least put some thought into it...it's too late to put up with stupid BS like that...

[*End Is Forever*]

Jeez Kaak, where to start, where to start...?

Ah, the beginning. Always helps. I did notice something you'd said earlier.

And plus, the increase in the amount of a$$ you get after you pledge is exponential

...but...

People get kicked out for all kinds of things that go against christian morality

...and...

Students get expelled for being caught drinking more than a couple times, for getting pregnant outside of wedlock, for living with people of the opposite sex, and a variety of other things

I look forward to most, if not all, of the frat boys being kicked out then.

I think that's worth a post on it's own, actually. More to come...

[orange]

Originally posted by devilmunchkin
baylor is not beautiful...
it's full of idiotic people who fight over petty things like whether homosexuals should be allowed on campus and whether the jocks should get payed rather than worrying about their education. It's a place where people come so they CAN discriminate in the US and not have to worry about the Bill of rights. don't EVEN get me started.
it's a place where you can pay for those things but also automatically pay to become part of the "in" crowd of an already elitest univeristy...
you pay to find your group of friends
your boyfriends
to get into keg parties...

and dave isn't looking to join the half way decent Xian ones either.....

I'd venture to say at least 75% of people in college have absolutely no interest in obtaining a rich education.

[*End Is Forever*]

...and now to dissect the rest of this crap.

Ummm...by clone like, i'm assuming you mean something that is or is very near equal.

Well, you obviously don't treat everyone as equals...

I, also, never claimed that baylor was a true projection of the outside world. In fact, i would affirm that it is quite different, thus the reason I chose to come here.

Thus, completely defeating the point of going to University in the first place. Oh well.

Living as a practicing homosexual is living in sin without remorse, which i'm sure you know after so many bible studies, is unforgivable

I'm not a Christian; in fact, I'm an atheist. However, as I understand it, the Christian doctrine suggests that we can be forgiven for all our "sins". In fact, wasn't that why you believe that Jesus died on the cross for you? Although I have great reservations about religious morality anyway, it does seem rather that you are hiding behind your religion as an excuse for your pathetic, stone-age bigotry.

Who is to say what is right and wrong? You? me? I'm a christian, remember. I think god is the definative source of right and wrong, so therefore, kicking someone out because they are WRONG according to the Word would seem justifiable

Well, if you can call bigotry and homophobia justifiable...

Christianity won't show you the way, but psychotherapy might...

If I were Asher, I'd be heading down to Texas right now with a shotgun.

More years than i can imagine? now that is funny. Let's see...I am a fifth year. I was a psychology major for 7 semesters (plus summer school). Who do you think has had more classes?

Presumably, that's Christian "psychology", a bit like Christian "science".

I know several psychology majors. Perhaps I could ask them about it?

only a moron would compare being black to being gay...

Why? They're both unchangeable characteristics. People discriminate against people that possess those characteristics simply due to bigotry.

(Side note - I'm a vehement opponent of AA, so don't even try to go down that route)

I only see one moron on this thread, and it isn't Asher.

by choice i mean that it is not a hereditary and irreprable condition.their are many many psychological disorders that one must "Choose" to cure themselves of...pick up a psych book...

Perhaps you could name me a couple of psych books that suggest that homosexuality can be "cured"? We have a comprehensive Pscyhology library here, I'll gladly look them up and read them.

[Shi Huangdi]

Originally posted by monolith94
Thankfully, for every Baylor that exists there are two or more Oberlins... Get a better education at the liberal run schools too!

Bah! Private schools are full of rich snobby people. For a true projection of the real world, go to a state university.

[David Floyd]

Oh my. It seems my little post caused a, for lack of a better word, ****storm

Let's see, I suppose I should weigh in a coupla issues.

Homosexuality:
First off, I am by no means enough of an expert to definitively say whether or not it's a choice or whatever. I can repeat what other "experts" say, but that'll get me nowhere because so-called experts weigh in on both sides. I will say that it doesn't bother me personally, and I have no problem hanging out with or being friends with someone who is gay.

Let's see, next Baylor. I looked at coming to Baylor a coupla years ago, my mom really wanted me to, but I decided against it. The reason for that was that I didn't think I could live with all the rules and restrictions. Now I'm at UT, where there are basically none.
I do think it's a bit ridiculous to expel students for sleeping together, drinking, or whatever - that's just what college students do - but then again, as a private school Baylor can do what it likes.

As for fraternities, I think that both Kaak and dm make good points, but I would also say to Kaak that not every fraternity is "good", and to dm that not every fraternity is "bad".

Now that I've come down in the middle and pissed off EVERYONE...

[General Ludd]

I'm just going to butt in for a moment...

I was just wondering if this was an intentional pun.

Originally posted by Asher
Maybe it's for the better all you wingnuts are in your own little private colleges, waiting for the real world to hit you in the ass once you're out

[devilmunchkin]

for the most part i think iain covered alot of what i would say...but i'll add a little bit more.
You claim you don't like "cookie cutter" frats/societies and one of the reason you like your frats is because it gets you "a$$." BUt then you turn around an want a structured and orthodox XIan environment. SO you would like to have your cake and eat it too? impossible. ALso, the "a$$" you're after is a sin as well..it's called lust.....but yet you're okwith that. hypocrisy...and well thought out to i suppose.
If what others do is their own business, then you shouldn't have a problem with homosexuals.
as for not meeting, i'm referring to any time i've talked to you through pms or on the board and extended an offer...you merely ignored it. you did make assumptions about my kind..claiming that i fit into a nice stereotype and saying i was a "liberalist"...i was just clearing the air so there was no question.
AS i pointed out earlier and you failed to notice, i said that blacks and different race groups have their own clicks.....even their own greek clubs. I never said one was better than the other.
YOu also never addressed my question about being able to be a part despite financial stress.
If animals arn't comparable to humans then why do we use them for testing and experimentation for not only drug usuage but for psychological study to help us gain insight into the human mind??? Oh..and try 18 years. Works wonders about what you can pick up on in discussing the human mind.
WEll, i don't think your god can be a source of right and wrong.....because then you'd be justified in committing genocide on all the homosexuals and "liberalists" on campus...oh wait..hitler already did that in Germany.....but yet it's seen as an atrocity..go figure and read judges sometime.
as for your frat//soroity justificatoins of your conduct...brotha pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease. that's just outright bull****.