The United States won the Vietnam War

[Imran Siddiqui]

Is it our fault that the North Vietnamese army consisted of peasants?

[copcartman]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Is it our fault that the North Vietnamese army consisted of peasants?

It had not been your "fault" if they were 10-year-old kids either. But you don't go bragging about bombing them to pieces, do you?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Who was bragging? Responding to someone saying they kicked our ass is bragging, now?

I don't think so.

[Bereta_Eder]

plz ignore testing

[copcartman]

Well, bragging might have been a strong word, I was a little upset. Still, in the context of what actually happened there it seems sort of weird to prove your point about "who kicked whose butt" by citing casualty figures, especially when those casualties include one million peasants armed with rifles, killed by top modern weapons.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Well when people say they kicked our ass... especially seeing how the people that fought there got spit on when they came back. They weren't failures, they weren't losers. That is the reason for the strong remarks back.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Well when people say they kicked our ass... especially seeing how the people that fought there got spit on when they came back. They weren't failures, they weren't losers. That is the reason for the strong remarks back.

The reason they got spat on was because the American troops were killing civilians in a war that the US had no reason to be involved in.

You seem to have forgotten what the US did in Southeast Asia: B-52s carpet bombing cities, dropping napalm indiscriminately, spraying agent orange, burning villages, turning an entire country into a death zone and killing anything that moved.

The American troops have nothing to be proud of and much to be ashamed of.

[Imran Siddiqui]

No, they had no right to be spat on. Those people that did that were the scum of the Earth. Those soldiers fought their hardest and got little of anything. They came back, and were villianized for simply trying to stay alive.

Sorry, but when civilians start firing on you with guns, you can't take any chances. Perhaps they should have let themselves get slaughtered? You'd like that wouldn't you. Guerrila warfare leads to civilian deaths, it is the nature of it, and it is NOT their fault.

They didn't deserve half of what they were subjected to. Why do you think some of them went a little nuts. Part of it might have been the horrors of guerrila warfare, but lots was the crap treatment they recieved when they got home. No one should be subjected to that crap.

I'd like to see what you would have done if you were in their situation.

[OldWarrior_42]

I believe the Viet Cong was actually the South Vietnamese fighting force, and the North was the Northern Alliance or something, even though nowadays people like to think we were helping someone over there, and fighting against the Viet Cong in the north.

Northern Alliance is what are the Afghans in this present action going on. Not the Vietnam war. The regular standard North Vietnamese army were known as NVA. Viet Cong were also not limited as a Southern Army made of South Vietnamese.

They were basically a guerilla outfit consisting of Northern Vietnamese and Southern Vietnamese sympathizers to the Northern cause. They fought all over the region including outside of their own borders.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
No, they had no right to be spat on. Those people that did that were the scum of the Earth. Those soldiers fought their hardest and got little of anything. They came back, and were villianized for simply trying to stay alive.

Sorry, but when civilians start firing on you with guns, you can't take any chances. Perhaps they should have let themselves get slaughtered? You'd like that wouldn't you. Guerrila warfare leads to civilian deaths, it is the nature of it, and it is NOT their fault.

I'd like to see what you would have done if you were in their situation.

The fault lies with the Americans who sent their troops into the country. The Americans go in and start killing people and when the people fight back in self-defence, you claim it is their fault for being killed.

More than that, you claim the civilians who didn't even fight back were to blame for being killed. Civilians in a village posed no threat to aircraft that dropped bombs upon them.

American soldiers were villified for killing innocent people. The scum of the earth were the American soldiers who killed unarmed civilians and didn't even care about it.

As for what I would have done, I would not have gone. I would have stayed in the US and fought against the war even if it meant going to prison. The soldiers were faced with a no-win situation (kill others, go to prison for refusing the draft, or dodging the draft), but they had a choice.

I agree that they should not have been spat on, but spitting on someone is far less harmful than dropping bombs on them.

[Imran Siddiqui]

So you are blaming the American soldier for what their government did? That's fair .

As for unarmed civilians. These are the same people who are carrying bombs into your bases at night. Lulling you into false security before destroying you. Do you even happen to know what the 'civilian' population is capable of doing in a guerilla war? Lot of them weren't as 'innocent' as you seem to think.

So was America also wrong for sending troops into Korea? France? You'd want America to be truely isolationist wouldn't you?

[Chris 62]

Bad day Dis?

USA lost that one, sorry.

As for the voice of Hanoi, we see yet another area he knows nothing about, but I promised myself I wouldn't argue with idiots, so I'll leave it to the learned fellow from Rutgers to handle the matter...

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
So you are blaming the American soldier for what their government did? That's fair .

As for unarmed civilians. These are the same people who are carrying bombs into your bases at night. Lulling you into false security before destroying you. Do you even happen to know what the 'civilian' population is capable of doing in a guerilla war? Lot of them weren't as 'innocent' as you seem to think.

So was America also wrong for sending troops into Korea? France? You'd want America to be truely isolationist wouldn't you?

The American soldiers who killed innocent civilians must accept responsibility for their actions. They cannot simply say "We had no choice, we were just obeying orders." They cannot say "I didn't pull the trigger, the American government did. They had choices, and as I have previously stated, most of those choices sucked.

Soldiers must kill in times of war, but that doesn't give any soldier the right to kill anyone tand everyone. Millions of civilians died during the Vietnam war. The United States, and the individual soldier, needs to accept responsibility for these deaths.

In fact, many American veterans have returned to Vietnam and made efforts to fix some of the damage they committed. These are truly men of honour.

And there are thousands of other American vets who have struggled with the trauma caused by the guilt of their actions.

What you seem to be saying is that all the civilians were legitimate targets. They had to be killed to save them from the communist menace, eh.

There are times when violence is justified. There are times when it is not. The American involvement in Vietnam was not justified. It achieved nothing but the deaths of thousands of American soldiers, many of whom did not want to be there, and millions of Vietnamese, innocent civilians and combatants defending their nation.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Chris 62
As for the voice of Hanoi, we see yet another area he knows nothing about, but I promised myself I wouldn't argue with idiots, so I'll leave it to the learned fellow from Rutgers to handle the matter...

Another predictable, pointless comment from Chris62. Thanks for the brilliant contribution to this discussion.

Chris: are you going to make any more infantile, boring insults or will you allow the adults to return to a discussion where people communicate without resorting to schoolyard taunts?

[Chris 62]

Originally posted by Tingkai


Another predictable, pointless comment from Chris62. Thanks for the brilliant contribution to this discussion.

Hmm, a personal attack, from a witless moron named Tinky.
How predictable.

Chris: are you going to make any more infantile, boring insults or will you allow the adults to return to a discussion where people communicate without resorting to schoolyard taunts?

I said no names, you just assumed it, again confirming what a jackass you are.