The noose is tightening on arafat

[Natan]

Originally posted by Rogan Josh
Which ones? People like the French resistance were operating on behalf of a recognised government - the French govt in exile.

Meanwhile, many of the Russian partisans were not operating on behalf of the USSR, but on behalf of Ukraine or of themselves. I think there's more to being a terrorist then just fighting for something other than a recognized state - I don't think rebellion is synonymous with terrorism.

[Rogan Josh]

Originally posted by Natan

Meanwhile, many of the Russian partisans were not operating on behalf of the USSR, but on behalf of Ukraine or of themselves. I think there's more to being a terrorist then just fighting for something other than a recognized state - I don't think rebellion is synonymous with terrorism.

Then we have to agree to disagree. I would certainly regard Mel Gibson's character in The Patriot as a terrorist.

[Goingonit]

About the King David hotel thing? They literally phoned up and said they'd bomb it. Anyone woh got caught in the way was not targeted, but stupid.

[Natan]

Originally posted by Goingonit
Anyone woh got caught in the way was not targeted, but stupid.

No, because the British refused to heed or even acknowledge the warning, and even when the Irgun set off a small warning blast, they wouldn't let people leave the hotel.

[Goingonit]

Originally posted by Natan

No, because the British refused to heed or even acknowledge the warning, and even when the Irgun set off a small warning blast, they wouldn't let people leave the hotel.

Sorry, victims of stupidity.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Eli
So the Allies were also terrorists.

Yes, duh!

The difference is that Israel tries to avoid civilian casualties, the Palestinians on the other hand try to kill as much civilians as possible.

So, unlike everything else you do, you're just terribly inept at not killing civilians?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Rogan Josh
Which ones? People like the French resistance were operating on behalf of a recognised government - the French govt in exile.

I think we may have a disagreement on the definition of the word 'terrorist'....

No they weren't. The French resistence was by and large the military wing of the Communist Party. It did not take it's orders from the government in exile, though it did cooperate with the Allies. So under your definition, they were terrorists. Tito's resistence in Yugoslavia wasn't carrying out it's attacks on the Nazis under the Yugolsav government in exile, nor were the Greeks or Italians. Overwhelmingly they were led by Communists who intended on setting up a Communist state after the Nazis were driven out. By your definition, the Viet Cong would have been terrorists, since they were not agents of a state, but an indigenous army opposed to the government of South Vietnam.

Furthermore, many terrorist groups act on behalf of governments. Hizbollah has carried out many attacks at the behest of Syria and Iran. The Nicaraguan Contras carried out a bloody terrorist campaign on behalf of the United States. UNITA and RENAMO carried out bloody terrorist campaigns on behla fo South Africa and the United States.

You need a better definition.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Rogan Josh
I don't think it is fair to say that the modern Israeli army are terrorists. I don't think it is fair to say that Ariel Sharon is one either (although it certainly looks like he has committed atrocities in the past).

Agreed, though I still remind you that an Israeli court rules Ariel Sharon was not directly responsible for Sabra and Shatilla, but it does fall under his responsability, and therefore was disallowed from being Minister of Defense ever again.

However, the state of Israel was founded on terror. The anti-British bombings were terrorist acts and the 'freedom fighters' of Israel definitely were terrorists. So it becomes a little difficult for Israel to condemn the PLO for their actions.

I disagree.

Israeli terrorists targeted military targets, soldiers, commanders.

I don't recall an Israeli attempt to harm Brittish civilians, surely not on Birttish soil.

Of course, two wrongs do not make a right and all terrorism should be stamped out. I think both sides have a lot to answer for.

I agree both sides have things to answer for.
I disagree it's even similar.

Ariel Sharon is one of the biggest bastards I have ever seen!
Arafat doesn't ahve any control on those loonies in the intifada, but the way AS is dealing with the Palestinians, destroying many people houses and the Palestinian economy, is really not less terrorism than that made by Arafat 30 years ago.

1. On what evidence are you basing your claimt that "arafat has no control"? On your opinion and Arafat's exclamnations.
Arafat chose to set the terrorists free a year ago.
Arafat chose to order weapons from Iran.
Arafat chose to hand out back confiscated rifles, a week ago.

Even the USA says publically that Arafat can do much more and chooses not to do so. Infact, sources say they will soon threaten Arafat with cutting ties with him.

2. Destroying empty houses which are only used as turret stations is not equal to targetting innocent civilians with a bomb or a rifle at all.

3. Arafat has been officially responsible for terror until 10 years ago, and now is covertly ruling terror behind the scenes, with public CNN appearances to please Europeans.

4. The Israeli economy took as much of a hit as the Palestinian one. The Palestinian economy is dependant on the Israeli one and the access to Israel, and when Israel seals itself to prevent terrorists from accessing it, they suffer. It's sad, but we prefer our safety.

Furthermore, money going to the PLO is confiscated, since they are using it on weapons, like the ship of 50 tons bought from Iran.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Rogan Josh
Would Hezbollah (sp?) stop being terrorists in your eyes if they only killed Israeli soldiers?

They'd move to the Guerilla category for me.

But they did target civilians, and even targeted jews outside of Israel, so it's out of the question.

[Natan]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
So, unlike everything else you do, you're just terribly inept at not killing civilians?

Actually, the IDF is a lot less inept at that then most other armies.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Zealot

Are Israelis and Palestinians at war?!? Are they?

Yes/

Because if they are, I don't see why haven't the Israeli seized military supremacy and destroyed every armed focus of Palestinian resistance?

Because we still give a chance for them to stop the violence.

We are aware that reoccupation is a major set-back and wish to avoid killing people (and an attack is bound to kill people).

However, with each new terract, Israel comes closer to the decision of reverting the decision to let Arafat in power.

In some time, the PA will be reoccupied, Arafat and friends cleared, perhaps some time of military regime, and then a new peace process with new PA govt. and new Israeli govt.

If they aren't, why do people keep getting killed?

People are getting killed as a result of limited military campagins, which due to the urban and highly populated nature of the battle field, often have civilian casualties.

For the palestinian side, they target civilians wherever they go.

I know that this subject is a hard and bitter subject to get over with, and get an agreement. But for God's sake, comparing it with WW 2 is just so... childish, dude!

I disagree.

Now that Israeli ministers are blamed to be war-criminals for having a war with Lebanon, and doing exactly the same as Allies in WWII against Nazis, it's only proper that we remind europeans how "easy" it is to wage war.

[chequita guevara]

Natan, You are never gonna let me win, are you?

edit: specifed Natan.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
You are never gonna let me win, are you?

??

I'm sorry

What did I do?

[Bereta_Eder]

Arafat is starting to talk like Binnie.

[Estilpón]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

Israeli terrorists targeted military targets, soldiers, commanders.

then, israeli army is -now- a terrorism group?