Black Hawk Down: One hell of a movie

[Evil_Eric_4]

I wonder if it dawned on any of these cheering Somalis that this movie may put more pressure on the Bush administration to move Somalia up higher on the list of "countries to crush".

I doubt many Somalis want to see us again.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by paiktis22
BTW I know this would sound harsh but it sounded like a badly planed operation.

If you think that's harsh, you probably don't want to hear my view of it.

But in this instance and from the few things I have heard about it, it seems to me that this was an instance where the US really did try to help without having an agenda of its own... So I guess I'm sorry that these things happened.

Maybe when the euro-army will be cemented you can just say "do it yourselves and see how it goes".

It started that way, but it's very hard to be in a situation like that without taking decisive action. The famine was a weapon for Aidid's people.

I think that a very large part of the US military officials had very strong reservations about doing it. And that it was the Clinton administration (good intentions - wrong choices in that matter) who forced the military to go there no matter what.

Somalia is one of the major reasons why the US military has such an aversion to "peacekeeping" missions. Diplomats seem to have a total refusal to recognize that when you need "peacekeepers" it's because the two or more sides can't be trusted to adhere to the agreements negotiated by their leaders. That requires a lot more response than a token military presence with restrictive rules of engagement.

Isn't it also true that in Somalia the Al Qaeda has a large following?

Southern Somalia is pretty lawless - anybody can find a place to hide and do their thing there, in return for a little cash or assistance to the locals, and there is a little bit of a hotbed of Islamic fundamentalism, but by themselves they don't have the wherewithal to do anything. So al Qaeda is a perfect fit.

This whole region seems like a volcano that explodes from time to time and whoever happens to be there gets fried.

Yep, and the peaceful farmer tribes most of all. They have a fundamentally miserable existence.

BTW - Aidid is now dead (since 96, not soon enough), but his son, an ex-US Marine, now runs his little fiefdom. The Aidid's run Mogadishu, but once you get a little ways outside the city, they're nothing. A lot of the Mogadishu populace are just along for the ride - Aidid's people are the only power there, and there are no restraints on what they do, so it's hard to separate the dedicated followers from the rest, unless you know their clan and tribal ties.

[Bereta_Eder]

I see.
Doesn't the Somali government try to enforce its laws everywhere in that country?

Is it pro-western? Does it have real power to do it?

Because if this is not the case and Al Qaeda is looking for refuge (although I think you have kicked the sh!t out of them) Somalia sounds ideal for that sort of thing.

[DinoDoc]

Does such a thing exist in any real form?

Originally posted by paiktis22
Doesn't the Somali government try to enforce its laws everywhere in that country?

Somali government???

[lightblue]

Originally posted by paiktis22
I see.
Doesn't the Somali government try to enforce its laws everywhere in that country?

Is it pro-western? Does it have real power to do it?

As far as I know Somalia is basically in a state of anarchy where he who has the most weapons/men decides what the people with less weapons/men do by virtue of implementation of brute force.

And it wouldn't surprise me if some of these warlords accepted large amounts of cash from Bin Laden to enable him to have his little training camps there.

[Bereta_Eder]

Ok.

[Bereta_Eder]

BTW wasn't it in Somalia that those bastard-sub-human-not worthy to live- Italian "soldiers" tortured young Somali women for fun and for "relieving their stress"?

With peacemaking worms like this no wonder Somalis are anti-western.

If there was a death penalty in Europe it should have been used for them and their like.

[lightblue]

Originally posted by paiktis22
BTW wasn't it in Somalia that those bastard-sub-human-not worthy to live- Italian "soldiers" tortured young women for fun and for "relieving their stress"?

With peacemaking worms like this no wonder Somalis are anti-western.

If there was a death penalty in Europe it should have been used for them and their like.

Yep, don't you just love those Italians... They must be just about the most inherently racist country in Europe. Case in point: Lazio fans.

[Bereta_Eder]

And also I think it was in Somalia that some also bastard-sub-humans tortured american soldiers also? Or they dragged them by ropes from jeaps?

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by lightblue


Yep, don't you just love those Italians... They must be just about the most inherently racist country in Europe. Case in point: Lazio fans.

Some rotten apples cannot characterize a whole country.

[MichaeltheGreat]

And the Canadian Airborne Brigade had a little barbecue with a few Somali youth they held over a fire for a while.

And part of the reason for these atrocities were the constant sniping, mortaring, ambushing, spying, and the attacks on and mutilation of soldiers of the Pakistani battalion, etc.

Yes, the conduct of the soldiers in question was beyond any scale of acceptable military conduct. And no doubt, some of the troops involved were pure bastards to start. But Somalia (especially on peacekeeping and related duties) is a festering, soul-draining, brain-curdling ****hole, that no living being deserves to have to go to or live in. Spend some time there before you judge them that harshly, but yes, they deserved punishment for those acts.

Also don't forget that women and kids are used as combatants there by their men.

[Dominikos]

Go **** yourself repeatedly. It might eventually trickle in and mix with what little you've got for brains, and give you a second point of IQ to go with the one point you have, asswipe.

Oh please! What's wrong Mike? Can't take a little beating!? Did I insult your national pride!? After September 11th, you Americans certainly have an attitude problem. But didn't that moron Bush say, "If you're not with us, you're against us"? You are such hypocrits! I slam Americans and you all share the opinion that I'm stupid. Fine, but you guys constantly slam the Somalis and someone here even called them cockroaches! That's not much different from my posts slamming the Americans.

Don't take it too harshly my friend! If you ridicule the rest of the world, don't be surprised if someone ridicules and has some fun with you once in a while. Then again, I can't expect anything different from a group of American posters.

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~Emperor Dominik~

[faded glory]

Dom.....your slamming americans because we went into somalia with good intetions and wanted to do nothng but feed the people. That was it...we didnt give a damn about the Civil War. We escorted our food shipments and at first, everything was goi ng well.

Then they armed groups starte killing the UN escorts and stealing them. Aidaid was behind that. We tryed to stop him......so we are the bad guys I guess


You can go to hell Dominiko's.

[Dominikos]

You can go to hell Dominiko's.

Wohoo! Let's see who can get there first!

so we are the bad guys I guess

You're always the good guys! When was the last time the Americans did not see themselves as saviours!?!?

You even go so far as to claim that you won WWII! Oh no, I will probably get in trouble for this one!

You want everyone to agree with you. If you said something about Britain to a Brit, he would most likely laugh. If you did the same to an American, he would punch you in the face! Cool down! I prefer the British style, they certainly know how to laugh at themselves while you Americans just don't get it.

Spare me this!

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~Emperor Dominik~

[TCO]

Originally posted by faded glory



You can go to hell Dominiko's.

Does he deliver?