The Apalling Spectacle of American Christianity

[Jon Miller]

He said most, not all.

Jon Miller

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Tolls
Locutus:
The pound coins here have one of:

[...]

So one God one, but that's what happens when your head of state is also head of the church I suppose...

You Brits are actually worse than Americans! (Don't worry, I still you Brits more - how could anyone possibly prefer American football over real football or rugby, or pool over snooker? )

Okay, so you win that one. But then again, Brittain isn't really part of Europe, now is it? That means the Dutch are still the most pious nation of Europe...

[DanS]

Thank God that many in the US are still faithful! I wouldn't have it any other way, even though the majority don't subscribe to my particular brand. But it would probably be a mistake to limit that to just christianity or even strictly religion. For instance, the Falon Gong is especially strong in the US. It might be more worthwhile to look at it as a civic/religious phenomenon.

In the end, Roland's suggestion is as good as any. American social institutions are inherently conservative. Put another way, they're stable and strong, and the societal MO has already been laid out. They work, despite many challenges having to do with sustained immigration from multiple sources. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Edit: I do note that Europe is in no way uniform on these issues. Germany has the CDU, for instance, and ethical issues like abortion aren't nearly as settled as portrayed in this thread.

[absimiliard]

My bad Jon. You're right. He did say "most". Not sure why I thought "all". Like I said, "my bad".

[faded glory]

There is that word......that assumes all Christians ar like this or that

You can't paint us all with the same brush, moron. I am catholic, P Robertson is Baptist (I think). There is a huge difference.....

[faded glory]

Btw: Europe has more Christians than America...(200 million all of europe).

I just think its more the culture of America the breeds the nutcases...people grow up in these small towns, live picture perfect childhoods in rural areas..etc. (much like myself, but I dont hold radical views about Christianity)

[devilmunchkin]

here's a clinker:
are those nuts really true Christians...or heretics? how can you differntiate good theology from bad liturgy? ANd because the bible espouses so many points of views and can leads to all sorts of interpretations, who is elegible to say what is right and what is wrong?

[faded glory]

American 2 main christian faiths are the Catholic faith is more based on the letters paul sent to the varouis mediterraenian churches. And of course the gospel..Baptist's are more Gospel and of course there are the fringe Revelationist's....the people who want to be martyr's and believe the end of the world is at hand.(yea christianity has martyr's also)

[loinburger]

Originally posted by absimiliard
(But I will grant you that none of them have military forces capable of taking on the secular government, though I believe that's less by their choice than by necessity.)

Choice or necessity, doesn't matter to me, as long as they aren't running around with Kalashnikovs.

[absimiliard]

faded glory: First off, let me say that you don't know me and clearly know nothing of my IQ. Now I will grant you that I'm not exceptionally intelligent but I believe that I quite consistently have tested at well above moron levels. Bank money that my IQ is at least 40 points above moron, even taking into account age-degradation since my last test. Please save the name-calling for the playground.

Second. Allow me to point out that "all" was a modifier to "American religious nuts" in reference to militantism. It was not a modifier to "Christians".

But since you seem to want to spat with me I suggest that until you are a member of a religion that hasn't murdered masses of elderly women by burning them to death and hasn't killed thousands on "crusades" against infidels you not cast stones. Did not your purported founder once tell you not to cast stones if you were not without sin? Catholicism has a load of fanatic-driven murders to answer for in it's history, maybe not recent history, but that doesn't absolve the religion of the blood on it's hands. (In recent history your church doesn't do so well either, witness it's actions during World War II)

Now, I managed all that without personally insulting you or calling you a moron. Try to keep any responses within the bounds of civility if you please.

[faded glory]

Oh yes......you "athiest's" and your clean hands!

The 20th Century has breeded the worst fanatics. And they tend to be more of the athiest type. (Hitler, Stalin, Mao!?)



Oh and my comments werent directed at you moron. More at the thread heading......

But since you rudely attacked me, and tried to point out that you are "smarter than thou". Of course you dont know a dime about me..and you sure as hell do not know my IQ!

Not that IQ is a measurment of Intellegence anyway!? I always thought Common Sense and Judgement were alot more important in the game of life.

[HisMajestyBOB]

But since you seem to want to spat with me I suggest that until you are a member of a religion that hasn't murdered masses of elderly women by burning them to death and hasn't killed thousands on "crusades" against infidels you not cast stones. Did not your purported founder once tell you not to cast stones if you were not without sin? Catholicism has a load of fanatic-driven murders to answer for in it's history, maybe not recent history, but that doesn't absolve the religion of the blood on it's hands. (In recent history your church doesn't do so well either, witness it's actions during World War II)

I believe that Stalin was an atheist, and killed/tortured/etc. many religious leaders or various faiths, and people who seemed to put Religion over the State (re: anyone who wasn't atheist who, they wanted to imprison).

[ThePantaloonDog]

You also have to take into account how much more rural America is to the rest of Europe. For obvious reassons people who grow up in rural area aren't exposed to as many ideas as someone who grows up in the city. This keeps little pockets wackos that left Europe still intact even though the rest of the world has passed by them.

I also cringe every time the president talks about God. For a country that is based on separation of church and state we seem a bit hypocritical. We're still having stupid debates on whether to post the ten commandments in classrooms and evolution.

Just for the record rugby is better than football but snooker and soccer suck goat gentilia.

[faded glory]

(In recent history your church doesn't do so well either, witness it's actions during World War II)

Oh God! Please tell me what Christians did in world war2 that was so awful... Other than what the rest of Europe did- Scared ****less bye the nazi's..


Muss. & Hitler: Athiest

[absimiliard]

Hey BOB. Yeah, the atheists have a lot to answer for too. I suspect it's a symptom of "being in power" and when a religion is in power it falls to the same sort of tactics. (I'm not sure why, but I feel compelled at this point to ask that you not lump me in with the atheists, I'm not one.)

I suspect the prevalance of nasty atheists in modern history is less due to their atheism and more due to the acceptance of atheism by the general populace. However that prevalance does not excuse the historic religious oppression, it merely equals it in horror.

Of course for every Stalin or Mao you have a Saddam Hussein or Osama bin Ladin. Plenty of inhuman beasts to go around on both the religious and non-religious sides. I will however venture that both Stalin and Mao were fanatics of Communism, and that they clearly viewed that as their "religion", even to the point of attempting to supplant existing religions with it.

I will decline to invoke Godwin's Avenger, thank you.

Faded, I never claimed to be smarter than you, I don't know you. I don't believe I even implied I was smarter. I simply resent being called a moron, or at least what appeared to be such. I would agree however that intelligence is much less important than maturity and commonsense.

If you wish not to be attacked by me, might I suggest that when you respond immediately after one of my posts with something not intended to personally attack me you make it more clear that I am not your intended target. A little clarity would have avoided this whole incident.

Lastly, might I request that if you want to insult me further you do it by e-mail (abenson@world.std.com) so that neither of us highjacks this thread. Highjacking it on a personal spat isn't really my intent, and I bet it's not yours either.