The video tape was manufactured.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by paiktis22
err a coup is when the military or some fraction effectively takes control of the goerning of the country.

This basically happens by capturing the centers of command and the media. What would the hits on WTC would had to do with a coup?

Oldest trick in the book. Manufacture a crisis. Not that I'm saying this is even a possibility here, just that it's been known to happen before.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Oldest trick in the book. Manufacture a crisis. Not that I'm saying this is even a possibility here, just that it's been known to happen before.

no,no. It's one thing to want to terrorise the populace into submission and another to enrage it so much that your ass will be grass 2 minutes after you make the coup.

If someone orcahstrated a coup, blowing up 3500 people in such a horrific manner would be equivalant to put a 200 kils of dynamite under his sit and light it up, no matter if he suceeded in diverting the authorities' attention!

[Dis]

maybe he got that misconceptin when the FAA ordered all planes grounded. He may have thought the FAA was affiliated with the military. You have to admit that was a very drastic thing to do- to take every single aircraft out of the sky. But other than that, there was no extreme reaction to Sepp11. Not even martial law that I can remember. The coup has to be a translation problem.

[KrazyHorse]

If someone orcahstrated a coup, blowing up 3500 people in such a horrific manner would be equivalant to put a 200 kils of dynamite under his sit and light it up, no matter if he suceeded in diverting the authorities' attention

You don't understand the concept. Standard "Five-star general gets to be president". Planes blow up. Hopefully prez&vp also killed. Joint Chiefs declare state of emergency, grant themselves extraordinary power. Martial law, clamp down on communications. You've got the whole country in your fist. Classic example is the reign of th Commitee for Public Safety in revolutionary France. There the crisis was thrust upon them from outside (sort of) by the 1792 war, but same sort of deal in general.

Again, I don't think this is realistic in the case of the US, but in less developed parts of the world it's almost a standard method of gaining power.

[Bereta_Eder]

I don't think so. The orchastrators of coups go after the men in power. Once they have that they try to keep down the people which is by then too surprised to act anyway. (they annonce a warning from the radio to people to stay at home for example)

If people who commit a coup (how are they called in english?) were to perform such acts of mass murder against the populace (as in 11 sept.) they couldn't last in power. The backlash would be too great.

In other words you don't do that kind of thing if you want to make a coup and stick to power. Not to say that it is absolutely unnecessairy to do it too.

[KrazyHorse]

Again you don't understand: you blame somebody else for the acts of terror. You go fight a half-assed war against them in order to distract people from the homefront. Also, you use this as an excuse to quietly disappear those who are going to object most loudly to the change in government.

[Bereta_Eder]

No, I think you are now stretching too far KH.

We were talking about how to take over a country in a coup. Not how to make a democracy implode which means not how to reduce drastically civil rights.

A coup is one thing. Working -even manipualting - but always remaining in democreacy is another.

The standard procedure for a COUP (not for you to pass on your ideas in a functioning democracy) has nothing to do with mass murder and everything to do with seizing centers of power.

What possible good would for example have the people of the coup by smashing planes into the WTC???

No political leader was hurt. The people who died didn;t hold an importnat position of power.

It doesn't need to happen.

[KrazyHorse]

I don't see what your problem is.

IF: I am a high-ranking general
AND: I want power, no matter how I attain it
THEN: This is a good plan
BECAUSE: I will look like a knight in shining armour and nobody messes with somebody in shining armour.

[Bereta_Eder]

i think you have seen too many films KH


so what you say is:

the general crashes the planes in the buldings (without saying it was him)
then comes up as a hero and says "i'll save your nation"
and all the people and all the politicians chant his name in praise.

is this what you are saying?

that never happens. It has to go through democratic procedures and then it's declaration of martial law as is envisioned by the constitution. That has N O T H I N G to do with a coup.


Clear up your head

[Bereta_Eder]

a coup is seizing power through undemocratic means (no elections). that's it


manipualting a nation into martial law is something completely different.

[Urban Ranger]

The KrazyCat is right. That's usually what happens in a coup. Once a strongman seizes power martial law is imposed. Fighting a half-arsed war somewhere is also a good idea.

The idea behind imposing martial law is to do nasty things quietly to those oppose to your seizing of power.

[DanS]

Actually, on top of the World Trade Center was where a lot of the media were transmitting from. In a coup, it would have either been destroyed or taken over. Very prime real estate.

Of course, this is silly thinking. Right?

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Russell
I don't believe the WTC towers ever existed in the first place. All those people who claim to have seen them or been in them were paid actors, and all the photos were faked. You can tell by the suspicious shadows and lightings if you look closely at some of them. In fact, I even question whether New York itself really exists or is just a made-up city to help support the USA bluff of having an economy.

Fifty years from now, if Apolyton is still around (God forbid ), this will be considered a debatable topic.

[Roland]

Dan:

"Your initial thinking was rational, which lends credence to OBL's cronies' impressions. Also, we were acting in a very similar fashion to what a country would act like during a coup, I can imagine."

I was taking a slightly different angle. The thing that brought up a coup as a remote possibility was the president being flown around like air cargo, and virtually nothing from other civilian top rank. I guess the surreal picture of the towers collapsing aided a bit to imaginiation.

"For an American, the thought is totally alien. Incongruous. Our synapses aren't connected like that. Even similar ideas that would fall under a mistranslation are totally alien."

So your private militia types are as fake as the moon landing ?

"Even Hollywood, the wildlife preserve we keep in order to weave stupid yarns, couldn't contemplate it..."

I think I've seen one or two hollywood movies with a military coup in US story.... close to it is the Clinton impeachment movie - oh wait....

"So I can guarantee that an American wouldn't have the competence to pick a phrase like that. Even in Arabic."

I'm sure they outsourced the actual production.

"I don't know. Maybe the Austrians fabricated it for us. Now that would be genius!"

As OBL didn't say anything about "hasta la vista", being back or Mozartkugeln, I doubt it...