Remembering the Nanjing Massacre

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Natan
When you consider the extent of German atrocities, particularly on the Eastern front where most soldiers served at least for a while, it's hard to view German soldiers as just like any others.

Really? The Russians did a hell of a job going west.

[Bereta_Eder]

German soldiers had an ideology that made them think that is ok to brutal, cruel, inhumane and they were so.

Most allied soldiers didn't have that ideology (and were the defenders)

[KrazyHorse]

Eh.

Do I have to make a list of every "incident" involving British, American and Russian soldiers for the last 100 years?

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Eh.

Do I have to make a list of every "incident" involving British, American and Russian soldiers for the last 100 years?

German soldiers were given orders like "burn up that village" or execute these 500 men. And they carried it out.

There was a distinctive difference between the levels of inhumanity between the two camps. The arian race mentality gave justification for many brutal acts that had saturated around the vast majority of german soldiers who had embraced that ideology.

[Goingonit]

Originally posted by Natan
When you consider the extent of German atrocities, particularly on the Eastern front where most soldiers served at least for a while, it's hard to view German soldiers as just like any others.

That's the dilemma. But dead is dead, and before 1933 these were ordinary kids. Of course I wouldn't remember them specifically because I'm not German but their friends/relatives/descendants/fellow countrymen can remember them just because they're dead.

Reminds me of the midrash about the angels rejoycing after the death of the Egyptians in the Red Sea. God says, "My creatures are drowning in the sea, and you sing my praises?"

[Bereta_Eder]

What ever did countries like Greece or Serbia do to justify such an attack against them?

I don't know and don't care about the games of British vs Germans vs whoever. What I do know is that we were attacked by two countries without having done anything wrong against them.

Honoring the invaders seems slightly revolting to me at least.

[Goingonit]

Originally posted by paiktis22
Honoring the invaders seems slightly revolting to me at least.

We're not asking you to honor them. But the Germans can, as they are their countrymen who have fallen in war. Their acts should be hated, but their lives can be remembered.

[MORON]

ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

This is something I don't want to think about.......

[Natan]

Krazyhorse, there were Russian massacres of Germans, but calling them equal is absurd. The German invasion of Russia killed several percentage points of the Russian population excluding military deaths, the same cannot be said of the Russian invasion of Germany.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Goingonit


We're not asking you to honor them. But the Germans can, as they are their countrymen who have fallen in war. Their acts should be hated, but their lives can be remembered.

same difference

[Goingonit]

Originally posted by paiktis22
same difference

No it isn't. A life is a life, however bad the people were. Nobody's asking you to like them.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Goingonit


No it isn't. A life is a life, however bad the people were. Nobody's asking you to like them.

I don't think you realize. What kind of "rememberance" are you talking about?


"We stand here today to remember the german soldiers who fell in WW2?"

Do you really want Europe to remember them?

[Natan]

Originally posted by Goingonit
That's the dilemma. But dead is dead, and before 1933 these were ordinary kids. Of course I wouldn't remember them specifically because I'm not German but their friends/relatives/descendants/fellow countrymen can remember them just because they're dead.

Good, then they can mourn their dead, but not exalt them as heroes. Their war is a cause for shame, not celebration.

Reminds me of the midrash about the angels rejoycing after the death of the Egyptians in the Red Sea. God says, "My creatures are drowning in the sea, and you sing my praises?"

If you want to make this a tanakh dispute, let me mention that az yashir is still right there in shemos. "Amar oyev, erdof asig achalek shalal, timlaemo nafshi, arik charbi, toreshemo yadi. . . . yemincha hashem nedari bekoach, yemincha hashem tiratz oyev" ("the enemy said: I will pursue, I will overtake, I will divide spoils, he was satisfy my soul, I will dry my sword and my hand shall impoversh him . . . they right hand, O Lord, does gloriously, they right hand, O Lord, smashes the enemy.") - Exodus 15:6

[Goingonit]

Originally posted by Natan
Good, then they can mourn their dead, but not exalt them as heroes. Their war is a cause for shame, not celebration.

Exactly.

If you want to make this a tanakh dispute, let me mention that az yashir is still right there in shemos. "Amar oyev, erdof asig achalek shalal, timlaemo nafshi, arik charbi, toreshemo yadi. . . . yemincha hashem nedari bekoach, yemincha hashem tiratz oyev" ("the enemy said: I will pursue, I will overtake, I will divide spoils, he was satisfy my soul, I will dry my sword and my hand shall impoversh him . . . they right hand, O Lord, does gloriously, they right hand, O Lord, smashes the enemy.") - Exodus 15:6

But the point of the midrash is that though the Lord destroys the enemy, he isn't happy about it.

And I wasn't intending to drive the discussion this way. I found the story appropriate, I didn't want to use it to introduce a biblical angle into this discussion.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Natan

Good, then they can mourn their dead, but not exalt them as heroes.

BAH! I am going to say something really wicked. But I won't.