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How would you conquer the U.S.

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  • #46
    and now my answer. As has been said before. You would practically need the whole world to do it. And I'm talking about 2002. Not 50 years from now.

    First of all. You need a unified- important: unified middle east on your side. Every single oil producing country must be on your side. Second is China and Russia. they must be on your side. Not necessarily supplying troops (china and russia agreeing on anything is impossible), but at least providing monetary support. But at least 1 of those 2 nations has to engage the U.S. Next is central America. Securing Mexico as an ally is impossible. Central America is much more plausible. Obviously in this case Mexico must be conquered which shouldn't be too hard. Then an invasion into the southwest and Texas can begin.

    The first stage of the war involves Alaska. The pipeline must be destroyed and air superiority must be achieved. An invasion is near impossible due to terrain and weather. Air superiority will render this state useless and all oil production nil. Next step is Hawaii. This one is the hardest objective. Again occupation is not necessary. Only the destruction of the naval base and air superiority. Both China and Russia lack the capability of ahieving this. The only possible way is to obtain aircraft carriers from England and use them to bomb hawaii with backup from either China or Russia. Obviously Russia would need some financial help, but with it, their submarines would be very effective.

    The next step is destroying key U.S. bases overseas. The U.S. air forces has very important bases in Iceland and Greenland. These must be eradicated before any kind of superiority over the Atlantic can be thought of. Next step would be to secure over 100 submarine (these need not be nuclear- electric ones are actually quieter). These can be used to eliminate convoys and the U.S. atlantic fleet.

    The fourth step is attacking Mexico from a staging point in central America. A swift invasion force will get a quick surrender. From this air superiority over parts of the U.S. can be secured. First priority is Texas and southern California. The rest is useless. Key dams must be destoryed the southwest.

    As a take over the U.S. east coast is impossible- nuclear weapons must be used on new york, boston, Atlanta, and washington D.C. Seatle must also be nuked because of it's hard to reach location.

    From this momentum obtain support from South America. This should ensure momentum is kept. the last push will be the gulf coast and Florida. Securing these areas will lead to an internal collapse of the U.S.

    One last thing. Every single aircraft carrier (there are 12) must be destroyed the first week of the war. Tactical nukes and spies are the only way to accomplish this.

    But even if all that went right. I would say there is a .01% chance of that plan succeeding.
    Last edited by Dis; December 11, 2001, 06:02.

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    • #47
      well we all know that above plan is bullsh!t, but it's all I can think of. It looked good on paper- at least to me. But it still doesn't deal entirely with the problem of the pacific navy. and the atlantic navy solution is thin. And I didn't mention EU/NATO- as they are my model as the attackers.

      I'm thinking a economic victory is more plausible. The american economy is strong, much more than I realized. I expected us to take a larger hit than we did after Sep 11. But we are already bouncing back!! But the U.S. economy is getting less and less diviersified each year. You can't have an entire economy based on the service industry!! And the service industry and telecommunications make up an extremely large part of our economy. These are internal devices. There is no external flow of capitol into our economy that I can see. If you can eliminate the demand for these things- you can eliminate the U.S. economy- and thus the U.S.

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      • #48
        oh, so many good plans....too bad we cannot implement them all...heck, implementing any of them would be cool too

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        • #49
          Originally posted by faded glory


          Impossible!


          USA economic machine is attached to every nation on earth like a leech that acts as a Pancreas. we suck out/produce/sell what we can....but get rid of us and you will likely bleed to death and die of diabetes
          lets see what does the US have we really need and can't get anywhere else???
          -Brains,...Nope those are imported by the US
          -factory Items,...could be produced anywhere(maybe even cheaper.
          -Money???
          -Corporations?...they'll most probably move out the first moment they see it isn't profitable enough anymore to produce in US and export.
          -Space launche base??...nope,Russians have one,Europeans have one outside US,...=> no need for that.
          -food?...Lets see here in Belgium each year there are thousends ot TONs of food destroyed just to keep the price up.
          -Computer & co(hardware): MADE IN TAIWAN
          -Computer & co(software): India
          -Internet?...Created by a Belgian and launched by CERN
          -OIL??Middle east

          So What is left??International embargo would be quite efficient.
          What could you do about it?Ask loans back,when nobody listens to you??Treaten to attack if someone doesn't want to trade???


          Shade
          ex-president of Apolytonia former King of the Apolytonian Imperium
          "I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." --Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931)
          shameless plug to my site:home of Civ:Imperia(WIP)

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          • #50
            Get one guy with a rifle. Smuggle him into the US (obviously not too hard). Hide him in Washington, DC. Knock out cell phone traffic. In the ensuing panic and chaos, have your hidden rifleman walk into the White House. Raise your flag. Restore cell phone communications. TAKE CREDIT FOR RESTORING CELL PHONE TRAFFIC. The US is yours.

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            • #51
              I still think my plan to secure a UK-Iceland-Greenland-Canada transport route would be the best. It can be defended without too many problems by European navies and airforces. Most/all of the route can be patrolled by aircraft, and the combined European and Russian navies will be more than enough to secure the rest, plus the European coastal lines.

              If some Pacific nations keep the US navy occupied in the pacific it means the US will have far less ships present in the Atlantic, but even if not I think it wouldn't be all that hard to secure the UK-IL-GL-CA route with just European+Russian navies and airforces.

              So this way huge numbers of troops and equipment can be send in from Europe and Russia to Canada.

              Dealing with possible US allies. The Arab nations in the world aren't particulary pro-US nowadays, so that leaves only Israel in the middle east.

              Israel can't do much either, it's airforce is smaller than Sweden's. Of course the US can station troops and planes in Israel, but what could it do with them? Europe's and Russia's airforces are big enough to defend their homelands from airstrikes, and the groundforces are no where near Europe (unless they are thinking about a D-Day style invasion of Greece or something).

              Also, how would the US get forces and equipment into Israel? Not through the Suez canal or the Med Sea, and also not through the Arabs who would never agree to arming Israel.

              The Russians can take out Alaska, or at least cut the oil supply.

              Even if the US can secure the rest of the Pacific from the Chinese, Indians, and Australians, they'd lose their hold on the Atlantic. So while the US is occupied in the pacific, European, Canadian and Russian forces invade the USA from Canada, quickly taking the biggest industrial centres in the north.

              Subuing the American population will be tricky, but after the US is severely crippled from the invasion from Canada it will be only a matter of time before organised resistance ends, and it's only some local militia units to worry about. When it comes to that we can just send in millions of Chinese troops to subdue the population.

              And don't give me crap about the American citizens being able and willing to fight a superior invasion force for years. The Americans are living to large for that. They aren't Afghans for crying out loud.
              Quod Me Nutrit Me Destruit

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              • #52
                MarkL, I already explained why Europe/Russia taking and holding a GIUKCanada corridor is not possible in the face of even four or five US carriers and land-based bombers.

                You also did not address the point that Canada's air force and army would be decisively defeated early on, nor did you address the fact that Russia just doesn't have the assets to invade from Kamchatka to Alaska.
                Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/DaveDaDouche
                Read my seldom updated blog where I talk to myself: http://davedadouche.blogspot.com/

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                • #53
                  Whoa Mark , what are ya smoking?



                  Today, you are the waves of the Pacific, pushing ever eastward. You are the sequoias rising from the Sierra Nevada, defiant and enduring.

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                  • #54
                    Who said the US wouldn't control the seas? I thought I showed how they WOULD in my post.
                    Sinking ships is one thing....blowing up every air base in costal China, Japan and N-korea is another.

                    Resupplying North-korea means going though Japan, and that means death. After all, South korea is easily within range of landborn aircraft.

                    Of course no Pacific power have a decent navy...so here is my plan.

                    Considering the fact that the US can't take over any of the Asian power in any period of time (billions of ppl) I'll transport a part of my Asian army though Russian rail to Europe. I'll get my fleet and invasion force around England, waiting to pounce on to greenland-iceland-canada. Taking out Greenland isn't easy, but it is (barely) within range of land based air attacks. Once air its attack capacity is taken out, the short Ireland-Greenland gap can be dashed though with relative safely.

                    Without oversea bases, the US airforce can't do long range strikes effectivily, and I'll just pour all my land air power on the carrier fleets. While defeating carrier fleets aren't easy, once the airwings starting to suffer attrition I'll send european carriers in to drive US back while my troops move in. When that succeeds I'll sent the Huge Chinese army though and quickly move European airforces to what is left of Canada.

                    Altenative tactic:

                    Move armies though africa and leap them across to South America. (assuming africa can support this, my guess is not)

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                    • #55
                      If you dare attack the US, we shall unleash hell!

                      Today, you are the waves of the Pacific, pushing ever eastward. You are the sequoias rising from the Sierra Nevada, defiant and enduring.

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                      • #56
                        USA is unconquerable.

                        We have 4 regions that can be completely autonomous.

                        Take out one, you have the other 3 still going full steam to pick up the slack. This is similar to when Soviet Union had a West and an East during WW2. The East still had factories going that were untouchable that kept them in the war.

                        Most industrial and agricultural production takes place in the Midwest, and this region is protected on all sides by the other 3 regions, plus Canada. No way in hell anybody could penetrate it. So basically you have a region with the resources and output equal to an entire large nation going full strength without being scathed.

                        You have the greatest industrial output in the history of the world stacked against you, the technology leader, and a vastly underestimated population that rises up and WILL fight to the death if threatened.

                        But those losers in the Taliban and Al Queda found that out already.

                        USA! USA! USA!
                        Attached Files
                        We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

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                        • #57
                          If he fires that thing, it will rip the bottom out of the boat!

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                          • #58
                            MarkL, I already explained why Europe/Russia taking and holding a GIUKCanada corridor is not possible in the face of even four or five US carriers and land-based bombers.
                            5 carriers won't be able to do much. Typhoons, Rafales and Gripen can lift of from airbases in the UK, Iceland, Greenland and Canada to provide able air support to counter anything the US can throw at them from carriers. Land based bombers are pretty useless too unless the US has clear air-superiority over an area, which it hasn't.

                            The UK-IL-GL-Ca can be guarded without too many problems.

                            What does the US have to stop this flow of supplies (other than nukes)?

                            A. Surface ships
                            B. Fighters from carriers
                            C. Long-range bombers
                            D. Subs

                            A. Won't be a problem, even if the US can send 75% of it's total fleet (unlikely, cause they'll have to cover the pacific as well to make sure no supplies reach the americas from asia), it won't be a real problem since a combined euro-russian fleet of surface ships is a lot bigger, plus air support is close by.

                            B. Say the US sends the 5 carriers you mentioned. Let's say they are all Nimitz class. That would make the total number of planes at about 400. All of these will be Hornets and Tomcats. Not bad of course, but European and Russian fighters will be there in far greater numbers, and the European fighters (at least the Typhoon, Gripen and Rafale) are vastly superior to the F-14 and F-18. Quickly the American carriers will run out of planes and have to return to get new ones, if they get that far without being sunk by Euro-Russian aircraft.

                            C. They will be easy targets for European and Russian aircraft and air defenses, without (m)any American fighters in the area they'll be shot down quite easely, especcially the B-52s and B-1s. The B-2s will be somewhat harder to take out, but those planes are very expensive, carry a smaller bomb load, and will only be availiable in small numbers. Plus, they aren't totally invisible on radar, and they will still be seen by Euro-Russian aircraft patrolling the skies.

                            D. Europe has many sub-hunting ships and planes that were build en-masse during the end of the cold war to counter the Soviet sub threath. I'm sure the US will be able to use some WW2-German-style sub raids, but in the end won't quite cut it either.


                            So unless the US commits it's entire navy and airforces (and even then I doubt it) they won't be able to stop the massive number of supplies reaching Canada.

                            And of course, planes and air defenses will be the first things going to Canada, to protect the Canadians from American airstrikes. And Canada is a huge country, I doubt the US can secure the skies there.

                            The Atlantic part is pretty much clear now. I only need to work out the Pacific part to make an invasion full proof
                            Quod Me Nutrit Me Destruit

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                            • #59
                              Most industrial and agricultural production takes place in the Midwest, and this region is protected on all sides by the other 3 regions, plus Canada.
                              We are talking about an invasion FROM Canada. The Midwest would be the first area conquered. After taking the north east and north west too the US doesn't really have that much production capabilities anymore. Sure, it's still a lot, but not nearly enough.
                              Quod Me Nutrit Me Destruit

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                              • #60
                                Lonestar, Ted,
                                ROTFLMAO


                                I havn't read the thread (just browsed the pics ) but in the case of a EU - USA conflict (that is entirely possible in 50 years although the chances are very very small) things will be drastically different from what they are now. SO don;t calculate based on how things are now.

                                Some things that will propably have happened before a euro american war:

                                _EU will have gigantizise its military forces
                                _Russia will have a tight relationship with the EU (the next best things to being a full member)


                                Still it is very imporpamble to have a war. Unless the US doesn't back down on critical for the EU demands. But that is fdar far away in the future. Second and third phase of the EU integration are still a lonmg way off and the US will do whatever it can to hinder them.

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