How would you conquer the U.S.

[Zopperoni]

Disguise yourself as George W. Bush.

[Stefu]

Damn straight you would. Btw, this whole thead is a joke. America can never be defeated, as was shown in the revolutionary war or say 1812. No one can attempt to match the hope and courage only we have recieved. Europeans can pride themselves on the BBC or whatever all they want, and the frenchies can eat every potato or croissant their petite hearts desire.

Moving on, if anyone ever attempted to conquer the United States, they would immediatly be killed and their country destroyed within days. Or, in the case of rouge state-sponsored terrorism, like what's going on in Britain or even Canada right now, economics would also play a factor as well as laser guided bombs or cancelled alliances.

Finally, everyone and anyone here who suggests a plan to destroy America should personally be arrested and tried for treason on the spot (a luxury you don't deserve, but hey). International wannabe spies like osweld or markl would quickly be deported and jailed in a military tribunal. No questions asked. Commie fools.

[red_jon]

The US is closer to 'sponsoring terrorism' than the UK.

[loinburger]

Destabilize the nation by rigging elections, using well-placed bribes, etc. to get corrupt, incompetent bureaucrats who are in your pocket everywhere in the federal government. Have them promote stupid un-Constitutional policies, like repressing dissent and passing a Constitutional amendment through Congress that would severely limit the existing Bill of Rights (and then apply have your pocketed Congressmen and generals apply economic, political, and even military pressure on the states until they agree to ratify the amendments).

Now you've got a nation ripe for revolt. Sneak a nuke into Washington DC (no need to use an ICBM, you don't want American satellites to track where it was launched from and retaliate, instead you want to confuse the hell out of the feds) and cut the head off of the federal government. Your generals who are left alive will then stage a military coup by declaring emergency powers.

Now you've got two options, depending on how things seem to be going-- you can either side with the states against the military, or you can side with the military against the states. I recommend the former; you can have your generals killed off immeidately prior to or immediately after you declare your allegiance, cutting the head off of the provisional government. The remains of the military will probably dissolve, since the soldiers and second-tier officers probably weren't all that thrilled about the military coup in the first place. If you want to limit your options but help assure the success of the states against the military, you can have your corrupt Congressmen anger and emasculate the military (before you blow your Congressmen up, of course).

Sign trade and diplomatic treaties with individual states before the civil war is completely resolved, in order to help assure that a strong central government will not rise from the ashes of the old strong central government. Wait a few years; if you've done your job then the states will keep their militias, but the US military will no longer exist by virtue of the fact that the US no longer exists. Now have your armies attack from Canada and Mexico. So long as the states do not put up a combined resistance, you've got a pretty darn good chance at a victory.

[loinburger]

Grr, double post. What the heck has been going on with the forum lately? Page reloads take forever, and I don't think that it's on my end.

[Grandpa Troll]

Ok, I am a REAL Proud American, maybe TOO Patriotic fer sum of u fellas taste......but here goes>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


The real way I see anyone could possibly take over AMERICA, Theses United States Of;

1) Would be start a post (Gaurd it so it dont get THREAD-JACKED!!!!!) asking for anti-Americanism posters to form a militia

>>>>>>>>>The way I see it is, there is a bunch 'O u folks hangin 'round<<<<<<<<<<

2) While you foreign Militia and self-proclaimed fed-up wit 'merican lifestyles plot and plan our demise,

3) Of course our FBI & CIA would be watching every post,focusing on what YOU are saying in da post;

4) The N.R.A. (Not the National Rifle Association!) but the Neanderthal Redneck A$$****rs would be buying up all the RED,WHITE & BLUE (thats not the Flag,Old Glory).REDNECK WEAPONRY
,WHITE SOCKS and BLUE-RIBBON BEER

Plus some Beef-Jerkey to chaw on

5) Now, you Militia would be able to do a surprise attack whilst us deciphers read this post,'cause the #$@*&%$ page -loading time would catch us with our overalls around our bare ankles......


Now All them thar X-Perts whom post here on how bad America is, and have signed with their mark on da enlistment line for foreigners Militia, take a step forward and SAY 'ELLOO 2 MY liiitttttlle friend

Oh and another thing, better luck ifin you attack the north during NASCAR (I mean Hibernation) season so as to avoid large troops movements along the racin circuit!

Ok, Varmints >>>>>Quit yer SQUAKIN and Start a walkin

H-I-N-T Now this is where you loud-mouth anti-AMERICANS tell me how bad,weak and inferior we as a nation are! So, HERE'S YER SIGN and (((RINGIN DINNER BELL))) come and git some!

Yours In Civin

Troll

[Dr Strangelove]

You guys are all wet! To conquer the US here's what you need to do: (1) Place sleeper agents in selected city and counnty governments all across the country. (2)On the next presidential election day have the sleeper agents sabotage the balloting in such a manner to render critical elections too close to call, yet easily contestable. (3)When the civil war breaks out carefully pit the various opposing sides against each other, keeping the conflict going until all sides are exhausted and demoralized.

[Richard Bruns]

As many posters have noted, the homeland of the United States cannot possibly be conquered in a straight military engagement. If we were to be conquered and controlled, the following defenses would have to be dealt with:
1) A few thousand nuclear weapons
2) Our navy, backed by land-based aircraft
3) Standing land-based conventional forces and reserves
4) Millions of willing militiamen/draftees, which could be organized by any remnants of the army.

Frankly, any one of these would be too much for anything smaller than the Warsaw Pact in its prime. In the cold war our primary fear was getting nuked; neither we nor the Russians ever seriously considered a conventional invasion of US soil.

Splitting us up wouldn't do too much. Texas alone has a size and GDP equivelent to a European nation, and I'm fairly sure that in the face of any external threat all AMericans would cooperate anyway.

I wouldn't bet on any scheme to make us fight each other. Even if it worked, the victor or remnants would probably still be too strong to defeat and control in a land-based action. Plus we'd probably still have all the nukes.

Basically there are only three only viable options:
1) A massive first strike with weapons of mass destruction.
2) Cause the nation to rot away from within before striking.
3) Do not allow the people to realize that they are being conquered.

If you want to use WMD and avoid retaliation, you have to use a fairly untraceable means of terrorism. A large number of covert operations teams would have to plan and execute sumultaneous chemical, biological, and/or radioactive weapon attacks all over the country. All military and command and control structures, and a good deal of the population, would have to be taken out instantly. Then you might have a chance of taking over, but expect decades of revolts and partisan activity from whoever remains.

Number 2 must be an extremely long-term plan. You would have to manipulate politics, economics, and technology to render all of our institutions and military poor and obsolete. Sort of like what has happened to Spain since the 1600's.

Number 3 is my personal favorite. If I set out to conquer the world, I'd start by making a corporation, probably a software and/or entertainment company. I'd slowly insinuate myself into the popular culture, using my entertainment to stupefy and brainwash the populace while I get my software onto as many computers as possible.

Then I'd try to slowly expand into high-tech hardware, winning as many military weapons and NASA development contracts as possible. Only then would I attempt to corrupt officials, and then in small places like NASA and the military. I'd insert eavesdropping and minitoring equipment into many of their satellites and installations, insuring that I have constant access to privileged information. Knowledge is power, after all, and it can be far more useful than money for corrupting people.

If I were lucky enough to make a really good breakthrough like a quantum computer, I would take advantage of this by keeping its existence carefully hidden while manipulating things to my advantage.

For example, I might promote general use of an encryption scheme that can be easily cracked by my technology.

To avoid suspicion, I would probably want to keep these companies seperate as a legal fiction, controlling them all with various puppets. Sometimes I would arrange for these puppets to get investigated by the Justice Department or the SEC, in order to make them look like incompetents and keeping up the illusion that the government is still in control.

My final goal in all of this would be the development of really good subliminal message hypnotism. Even a rudimentary level would allow me to maintain my software user base and entertainment audiences, even if better alternatives become available. As the technology progressed, it would enable me to slowly gain more control over humanity. What use is political or military power when I can control the minds of all of humanity as they sit in front of their televisions and computers, oblivious to my very existence?

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
You guys are all wet! To conquer the US here's what you need to do: (1) Place sleeper agents in selected city and counnty governments all across the country. (2)On the next presidential election day have the sleeper agents sabotage the balloting in such a manner to render critical elections too close to call, yet easily contestable. (3)When the civil war breaks out carefully pit the various opposing sides against each other, keeping the conflict going until all sides are exhausted and demoralized.

Hey, we already HAD THAT, with The Democrats subverting the great Republican way of life!

Yours In Civin

Troll

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Richard Bruns
As many posters have noted, the homeland of the United States cannot possibly be conquered in a straight military engagement. If we were to be conquered and controlled, the following defenses would have to be dealt with:
1) A few thousand nuclear weapons
2) Our navy, backed by land-based aircraft
3) Standing land-based conventional forces and reserves
4) Millions of willing militiamen/draftees, which could be organized by any remnants of the army.

Frankly, any one of these would be too much for anything smaller than the Warsaw Pact in its prime. In the cold war our primary fear was getting nuked; neither we nor the Russians ever seriously considered a conventional invasion of US soil.

Splitting us up wouldn't do too much. Texas alone has a size and GDP equivelent to a European nation, and I'm fairly sure that in the face of any external threat all AMericans would cooperate anyway.

I wouldn't bet on any scheme to make us fight each other. Even if it worked, the victor or remnants would probably still be too strong to defeat and control in a land-based action. Plus we'd probably still have all the nukes.

Basically there are only three only viable options:
1) A massive first strike with weapons of mass destruction.
2) Cause the nation to rot away from within before striking.
3) Do not allow the people to realize that they are being conquered.

If you want to use WMD and avoid retaliation, you have to use a fairly untraceable means of terrorism. A large number of covert operations teams would have to plan and execute sumultaneous chemical, biological, and/or radioactive weapon attacks all over the country. All military and command and control structures, and a good deal of the population, would have to be taken out instantly. Then you might have a chance of taking over, but expect decades of revolts and partisan activity from whoever remains.

Number 2 must be an extremely long-term plan. You would have to manipulate politics, economics, and technology to render all of our institutions and military poor and obsolete. Sort of like what has happened to Spain since the 1600's.

Number 3 is my personal favorite. If I set out to conquer the world, I'd start by making a corporation, probably a software and/or entertainment company. I'd slowly insinuate myself into the popular culture, using my entertainment to stupefy and brainwash the populace while I get my software onto as many computers as possible.

Then I'd try to slowly expand into high-tech hardware, winning as many military weapons and NASA development contracts as possible. Only then would I attempt to corrupt officials, and then in small places like NASA and the military. I'd insert eavesdropping and minitoring equipment into many of their satellites and installations, insuring that I have constant access to privileged information. Knowledge is power, after all, and it can be far more useful than money for corrupting people.

If I were lucky enough to make a really good breakthrough like a quantum computer, I would take advantage of this by keeping its existence carefully hidden while manipulating things to my advantage.

For example, I might promote general use of an encryption scheme that can be easily cracked by my technology.

To avoid suspicion, I would probably want to keep these companies seperate as a legal fiction, controlling them all with various puppets. Sometimes I would arrange for these puppets to get investigated by the Justice Department or the SEC, in order to make them look like incompetents and keeping up the illusion that the government is still in control.

My final goal in all of this would be the development of really good subliminal message hypnotism. Even a rudimentary level would allow me to maintain my software user base and entertainment audiences, even if better alternatives become available. As the technology progressed, it would enable me to slowly gain more control over humanity. What use is political or military power when I can control the minds of all of humanity as they sit in front of their televisions and computers, oblivious to my very existence?

Hmm..I believe a few years back Activision came up with that creation, package in the Call To Power game, called AI Entity!

Yours In Civin

Troll

[Ramo]

The best way to conquer the US is to indoctrinate a bunch of leftists into opposing anti-terror measures by the government, which are definitely what's best for the nation.

Or so Ashcroft says.

[DarkCloud]

Okay, I usually think of ways to destroy things in my free time- (I am not crazy- I merely like to think of doomsdays scenarios)
Here is an abbreviated version-->

1.) Some group sponsors home-grown terrorists in the US and supplies guns to several groups. (Left wing- right wing etc.)
2.) Some group sends viruses of some sort (smallpox- gotten from the USSR)
3.) The smallpox is released in subways somewhere (a la china)
4.) Terrorists poison water supplies in several cities with bacteria or dinoflagellates of some sort
5.) They tell the left wing or right wing that if they assist with the assault, they will rule.
6.) some Americans revolt and may take one nuclear silo
7.) The country attacking america would try to assassinate the president with a suicider and hope for confusion.
8.) In the confusion, they launch a nuclear arsenal from submarines in the waters.
9.) Submarines are untraceable, US nukes someone who is not guilty-->other countries are angered, they may send nukes.
10.) Nuclear winter.

Probably unfeasable, but plausible.

[David Floyd]

Anyone who says the US could be conquered - even an alliance including the entire world - is quite obviously daft.

First of all, we'd just nuke the **** out of you. Bye-bye world.

But I'll play along. Conventional forces only.

US vs. World

First of all, US vs. world is bull****. Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that China, Japan, Russia, Australia/New Zealand, and the entire EU+Canada ally, with many other nations around the world. However, the following nations would DEFINITELY line up with the US:
1)Israel
2)Taiwan
3)South Korea
4)Possibly many of the Gulf States.

This means the following:
1)China is essentially cut out of the war, because of both South Korea (with a reserve force of 4.5 million men) and Taiwan (huge air-defense network, essentially un-invadable by China). China, and probably Japan too, would spend all their time fighting these two nations. Ironically, Japan would have an easier time against them than China would, but without totally neutralizing both nations Chinese, and probably Japanese, interference against the Continental US would be impossible.
2)In the Middle East, Israel would, for a good amount of time, pretty much **** up the Middle Eastern militaries. The EU would probably have to devote major air resources to the Middle East to defeat the IAF, and after a war against Israel no Middle Eastern nation would be able to commit troops against the US, Turkey probably wouldn't either.

So, for major combatants, we are down to the following:
On one side, the USA.
On the other, the EU, Russia, India, and Australia New Zealand.

Additional problem:

US bases around the world would have to be neutralized, most particularly Diego Garcia. Unfortunately, India probably does not have the capability to invade Diego, and in any case could not make any reasonable contribution against the US other than naval power.

Okinawa and Hawaii, in the Pacific, would also be additional obstacles for China/Japan/Australia/New Zealand to overcome, EVEN IF China/Japan were able to decisively defeat Taiwan and South Korea, and still have enough of a military intact in good condition for further fighting (not bloody likely). Okinawa is home to the 3rd Marine Division, and Hawaii is home to the 25th Light Infantry Division. Further, the US 8th Army and attached air resources are in South Korea.

OK. So here it is.

Let's assume that the US has 8 aircraft carrier battlegroups available for use (I'm lowballing that, probably more like 10 or so would be available). In addition, the US has over 50 nuclear-powered attack submarines and around two dozen SSBNs, which could serve as fast-attacks in a pinch. The US also has something known as SOSUS, meaning the US would be able to detect the majority of enemy submarine activity in the Atlantic and Pacific.

If the EU's navy was foolish enough to sortie and challenge the US Atlantic Fleet, I'm seeing something like the following:

4-5 US CVBGs plus numerous submarines, against the combined EU/Canadian/Russian fleet, consisting of, probably, a maximum of 8 V/STOL carriers, with Harriers and, for the Russians, the Yak-38 (IIRC), plus the usual assortment of escorts. Now, MarkL has argued that the anti-US fleet could be covered by fighters operating from Canada, Greenland, and Iceland. For Canada, there is no way - Canada would be getting hit daily by the USAF, which is far stronger than the 80-odd F-18s Canada can put up. USAF would defeated the CAF with almost no losses, more than likely, and there is no real way Europe could station aircraft in Canada. As to Greenland, the airfield infrastructure is not really there for massive aircraft deployment. In Iceland it is, to a larger extent, what with Keflavik AFB which the EU could probably seize, along with the other civilian or older military fields. Problem, though, with using Iceland and Greenland is that US stealth bombers would basically unleash their arsenal on both places. Even JUST using B-2s, the US could make operating from either place a very risky proposition. Then add in US submarines hitting them with missile strikes. The airbases would simply be non-operational, or at BEST, a very few number of Euro/Russian aircraft could operate from them.

So we're back to the naval war. In a pinch, the air wings on US carriers could be beefed up to probably two squadrons each of F-14D Tomcats and F/A-18E/F Superhornets. That's basically 48 fighters per carriers, times 4 carriers is 192 fighters, or times 5 carriers is 240 fighters. I don't know the exact loadouts of the basic European V/STOL carrier, but I guarantee you it isn't more than 15 or 20, tops - and no, those carriers aren't really big enough to add more aircraft on. It wouldn't matter, anyway, though, because the Harrier is far inferior to the F-14 or the F/A-18. US CVBGs would dominate the skies of the battle very quickly.

Obviously, the next target would be any transports carrying equipment to Canada (the men would be mainly flown over on military transports - assuming Europe could build a successful airbridge, which I doubt, and further assuming they could break through a major US air blockade of Canada, which I also doubt). US B-52H Stratofortresses could launch stand-off anti-ship cruise missiles at the EU/Russian navy, and the F/A-18s from the US fleet could likewise engage the opposing navy. Additionally, US submarines could rip into it, after defeating any submarine force Europe could put out (don't even try to tell me Europe/Russia could win a sub war, Europe doesn't have enough advanced subs and Russia doesn't have enough working ones). The EU/Russian navy would cease to exist somewhere in the Northern or Mid-Atlantic following a major battle.

This secures the US's eastern flank. We'd already be tearing down into Mexico - deploy a couple of armored or mechanized divisions, with some support, and Mexico's army would disintegrate, along with whatever Central American allied forces came to Mexico's aid. Mexico would be out of the war in weeks. Canada, likewise, would probably be invaded in a few key spots, but not all across the front. The object of the US Army would be the destruction of the Canadian army - not a difficult task if you look at force structures - and possibly the occupation of the Canadian breadbasket. Any Canadian push into Alaska would be stopped by the US brigade stationed in Alaska (forgot which one), and let's face it, Russia's Far Eastern Military District is in no state of readiness to invade ANYTHING. Hell, the war with Chechnya ate up most of the Russian army's reserves of many key supplies, and most of those supplies are in the West anyway. Sure, they could transfer assets to the East, but that would take a while, considering the logistical situation of supplying a large army in Siberia, and then Alaska. After the defeat of the EU/Russian fleet and Canadian air force, US air power could begin to operate against Russian Far Eastern bases anyway - they don't have a formidable air force in the Far East, either.

As I've already stated, America's western front is secured by South Korea and Taiwan (no one in their right mind could say either nation would go against the US). But even if they DID, the Chinese/Australia/Japanese/Russian Pacific fleets are even less of a threat than the EU/Russian Atlantic force, and the US would have approximately the same amount of naval power to combat this - in an ocean with many major US bases, specifically Okinawa, Hawaii, Guam, Saipan, etc.

The war against America would be lost at sea, there is no way around that.

Wow, long post - fun to write though, and I'm bored off my ass anyway

[MORON]

HOW TO BEAT THE US OF A

Operation Flaming Death
Step 1 Send Eurocoms to US
Step 2 Watch the fireworks

Operation Macross
Step 1 Send bad pop singer(s) to US
Step 2 Sing bad songs, causing great confusion and mental damage
Step 3 Take over the brain dead US

Operation Holo Halo
Step 1 Wait for holodeck tech
Step 2 Get US prez in one
Step 3 Make him tell all the nuke codes, and kaboom

Operation Wealth Victory
Step 1 Mind control Bill Gates
Step 2 Send in spys to bribe all cities

Operation Redneck Victory
Step 1 let Al Gore win next election
Step 2 tell Republicans Gore cheated in the election and had a blow job in office
Step 3 Nuff said

China is essentially cut out of the war, because of both South Korea (with a reserve force of 4.5 million men) and Taiwan (huge air-defense network, essentially un-invadable by China).

HA, China have the world's biggest army. Without westen support controlling the seas, south korea and Taiwan would be starved to death in weeks.

1)Israel

Didn't you know the Israeli Zionist Conspriacy?

Okinawa is home to the 3rd Marine Division, and Hawaii is home to the 25th Light Infantry Division. Further, the US 8th Army and attached air resources are in South Korea.

Okinawa is too far for logestics, and they can just bypass them. South Korea can't attack China effectively nor could it sustain war for any amount of time if sealed off by Japan.

50 nuclear-powered attack submarines and around two dozen SSBNs, which could serve as fast-attacks in a pinch.

No SSBNs ok. I guess europe just have to send $$ to russia to help maintain its 40 some nuclear attack subs.

Even JUST using B-2s, the US could make operating from either place a very risky proposition.

Eat long wavelengh radar

though, because the Harrier is far inferior to the F-14 or the F/A-18.

Really..... ?

Anyway, its going to be like Civ2, where wars lasts 999999999 years before cities change hands. Attacking is plain impossible, unless I until I constructed my gekiganga army.

[David Floyd]

HA, China have the world's biggest army. Without westen support controlling the seas, south korea and Taiwan would be starved to death in weeks.

Who said the US wouldn't control the seas? I thought I showed how they WOULD in my post. In any case, we are talking about a protracted ground war in South Korea with a potential South Korean army, on the defense, of almost 5 million men. Granted, China, North Korea, etc., could mobilize more, but we're talking about a war taking years to win. To say nothing of Taiwan - China simply doesn't have the amphibious assets to invade, period.

Okinawa is too far for logestics, and they can just bypass them. South Korea can't attack China effectively nor could it sustain war for any amount of time if sealed off by Japan.

Bypass Okinawa, including of course the Marine Air Wing there? I think not. Of course South Korea can't attack China - but China can't bypass South Korea, either. And Japan can't seal off South Korea in the face of US naval superiority. Remember, the Japanese Self Defense Navy is nothing more than an admittedly high tech frigate and destroyer navy.

No SSBNs ok. I guess europe just have to send $$ to russia to help maintain its 40 some nuclear attack subs.

I guess, war would be over though before those 40 nuclear attack subs could be brought to bear

Eat long wavelengh radar

Which I suppose stops stand-off attack munitions too?

Really..... ?

Uh....yes really.