World's biggest problem: Overpopulation? (Just something to think about)

[drake]

India might be "developing" but they are far from a third world country. They're the biggest democratic country in the world and are rapidly gaining ground in scientific and economic growth. They ain't some backwards African country. Not even close.

The average Indian income is far from glorious, but in some places it is high enough to support a fairly broad consumer/trading market. And is continuing to grow. They have tons of natural resources and a firm manufacturing foundation. They develop their own technologies.

India is a country of great potential and will surely realize it eventually, just as china will. But on the way to doing that, they will both have to get their populations in hand, as others pointed out, as in the west.

Oh and here's an interesting fact for you
Wanna know where the first recorded "family planning" clinic was opened?

Bombay

[Transcend]

India started out from a far better position than China in 1949, and yet ended today far behind in quality of life for its people, industrial strength, military power, and infrastructure of the country.

Democracy is not the answer for countries that need major transistions in society's structure and people's way of thinking.

[drake]

How do you figure they were in a better position? Britain had just pulled out and left a country sapped of resources and organization. They went in, raped India andwhen they left, India wasn't exactly what you'd call stable

If not democracy, what does this overwhelming sea of voices need?

[Thue]

Originally posted by El Awrence
Well, yes, birth control and family planning could work miracles. But people in the developing world, need their children to help sustain themselves and their families.

When there is still free land children are a plus. Once an area reaches a certain density the children becomes an expense instead of a help. It is my understanding that this is happening most places in the world.

Without cash, they have no access to birth control or education ergo family planning.

Sure, then make more children so they become even poorer on average. I am not saying it is not understandable, just that it is not a good development.

Plus the high death rates and infant mortality rates, they reproduce like rabbits because they have no better choice. Unequal distribution of wealth again the problem.

Actually the overpopulation problem is when the mortality rate goes down from it's historic levels.

You keep saying that "Unequal distribution of wealth". The real problem is lack of education and birth prevention means.

[Transcend]

Originally posted by drake
How do you figure they were in a better position? Britain had just pulled out and left a country sapped of resources and organization. They went in, raped India andwhen they left, India wasn't exactly what you'd call stable

If not democracy, what does this overwhelming sea of voices need?

Britain left behind India many industrial facilities, and a railway network that was 5 times as long as China's. More Indians were also better educated than the Chinese under the British rule. Finally, the administration was mostly occupied by the locals anyway. Compared to what Chinese experienced, that was NOTHING. China in 1949 had suffered a civil war from 1912 to 1937, then the Japanese invasion which totally devastated the country, and finally the last civil war in which 1 more million people were killed.

After the War, India was still member of the Commonwealth, and was recognized by the world. The mainland China was not, and could only rely on greedy and unreliable Russians for foreign aid while India got its aid from most Western countries.

If you think India got raped by the British, then China was gang-raped and beaten to half-coma, just for comparison.


As for democracy, do you agree that sometimes the people has to be led? I would be especially suspicious about democracy if 90% of the population were illiterate. Even America, UK, and France didn't extend the voting right to all of its population at once. The general suffrage in these countries didn't exist until hundreds of years into their existence.

The ancient Romans certainly saw the need of dictatorships, and it was the constitutional dictatorship that saved Romans through hard times and prevented them from being defeated like the Greek city states.

[drake]

What does literacy have to do with the need of the people? Does illiteracy somehow = stupidity??

In any case, we're getting off the course....so back to the discussion at hand!

[Caligastia]

You can make fun of me if you want, but the fact is that humans have good and bad stocks just like plants and animals and anyone who breeds animals or grows plants for a living will tell you what happens when bad stocks are reproduced.

Humans are animals, and although we are very intelligent our bodies are still subject to the basic laws of genetics no matter how much we would like to believe otherwise.

[Transcend]

Originally posted by drake
What does literacy have to do with the need of the people? Does illiteracy somehow = stupidity??

In any case, we're getting off the course....so back to the discussion at hand!

illiterate = less informed, less knowledgable

A person needs information and knowledge to make good judgements and decisions. A person, who is not knowledgable and does not have good access to information, is very suceptable to demogogues, charlatans, and liars.

Back to topic. I'm an ardent supporter of population control, especially in countries where people's mindset has not caught up to the modern situations(lower death rate, social security, etc). Sometimes draconian measures are needed to break the poverty->more children->less resource/person->more poverty cycle.

[Dis]

yes disease is a problem. Especially with the rate doctors are overprescribing antibiotics.

we can't even cure the common cold for christ sakes. It's funny how people think technology can cure everything. Until we can cure the common cold, I will continue to think technology is not more powerful than mother nature.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Would all those in favour of enforced reduction of birthrates please scan and post proof that they've had vasectomies, please? Or is it just brown people whose numbers must be reduced?

Caligastia- there are no bad stocks. You weren't born crass and ill-informed. You become that way.

[Transcend]

Originally posted by Caligastia
You can make fun of me if you want, but the fact is that humans have good and bad stocks just like plants and animals and anyone who breeds animals or grows plants for a living will tell you what happens when bad stocks are reproduced.

Humans are animals, and although we are very intelligent our bodies are still subject to the basic laws of genetics no matter how much we would like to believe otherwise.

Your concept is not wrong, but who has the authority to determine which human is less worthy? What are the criteria for determining the worthiness of an individual?

If you cannot answer these questions, you are bound to repeat what Nazis did.

[Transcend]

Originally posted by Bugs ****ing Bunny
Would all those in favour of enforced reduction of birthrates please scan and post proof that they've had vasectomies, please? Or is it just brown people whose numbers must be reduced?

Caligastia- there are no bad stocks. You weren't born crass and ill-informed. You become that way.

Enforced reduction of birthrates doesn't imply dragging someone into clinics and have them sterilized. Even China is not doing that anymore.
Educating people, creating a stable social security system, improving the country's economy, making contraceptives freely available, and introducing policies that discourage having more than 2 children are the way to go. However, draconian methods may be needed in the first years to enforce the policy. No pain, no gain.
Once the people are prosperous and educated, they automatically restrain the number of children they are going to have. In wealthy Chinese cities like Shanghai, birth restrictions have been all but lifted, and still the birth rate remains flat.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Bugs ****ing Bunny
Would all those in favour of enforced reduction of birthrates please scan and post proof that they've had vasectomies, please? Or is it just brown people whose numbers must be reduced?

Caligastia- there are no bad stocks. You weren't born crass and ill-informed. You become that way.

Why do you accept that there are bad stocks for plants and animals, but not for humans? All we are is glorified apes after all.

I never brought race into this, you did. All races have good stocks and bad stocks.

Transcend - I dont think it is difficult to decide what traits are desirable. Intelligence and a minimum of genetic disease would be a good start.

[drake]

thats crap bugs

Would all those in favour of enforced reduction of birthrates please scan and post proof that they've had vasectomies, please? Or is it just brown people whose numbers must be reduced?

What the hell do you need a vasectomy for? I got all the proof I need in the fact that I ain't got no kids! If someone can't figure out that storks don't make babies, they probably shouldn't have kids of their own! Black, white, yellow whatever.

Theres no reason one cant regulate to a reasonable level, how many babies one has. (except in cases of twins +)

[Transcend]

Originally posted by Caligastia


Transcend - I dont think it is difficult to decide what traits are desirable. Intelligence and a minimum of genetic disease would be a good start.

Measuring intelligence is exactly the problem. Who qualifies as stupid? And how much stupidity is too much? Humans are often specialists, meaning smart at doing one thing, but stupid at doing another thing. How do you resolve that?

Finally, you don't have the AUTHORITY to judge over other people's life and death, and no other humans do.