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World's biggest problem: Overpopulation? (Just something to think about)

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  • World's biggest problem: Overpopulation? (Just something to think about)

    It's the root of many of this worlds problems.
    Is there too little ariable lands in the world, or too many people?

    Is doing everything we can do to continually extend average life span good for the earth? Is modern medicine solving problems on a micro level, while hurting things on a macro level?

    Are epidemics like aids just natures way of trying to contol its population?

    Quality of life is harden to sustain for a million people than 500000 people. It's very simple math. The more people you have, the more things have to be divided.

    As a world, we really need to level off our population or start decreasing it, because this world just can't handle continues expansion. Simple math.

    Are humans naturally aggressive and territorial to help control the earths population? Are wars in-evidable (history says they are) and in a way, necessary?

    Has medicine advanced too far? If everyone lives forever (significantly longer than in the past), and people don't slow down in the making babies department, this world will be overflowing soon.

    Any ideas on what the people of the earth could do?
    I see the world through bloodshot eyes
    Streets filled with blood from distant lies.

  • #2
    I think the major problem is that developed nations have a very strong agricultural intake, yet they don't need it because of low population growth, and developing nations have a low agricultural intake, yet they need more because of a high birth rate and low death rate.

    Overpopulation is a major issue in some places, but in others, it's really not that big a deal the way things are going (like Italy!)
    "Chegitz, still angry about the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991?
    You provide no source. You PROVIDE NOTHING! And yet you want to destroy capitalism.. you criminal..." - Fez

    "I was hoping for a Communist utopia that would last forever." - Imran Siddiqui

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    • #3
      And there are still people b1tching about China's population control efforts. I predict sooner or later Pakistan and India are going to experience a major social collapse due to population pressure.

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      • #4
        I agree with orange. The population growth in the EU has stagnated, and it is only immigration that keeps the birtrate at the required 2.1 children per family to keep the population stable. The German and Italian pops are already shrinking.
        The main solution is for everyone to get to the same level of development as Western Europe (the US still has too many variations), at which point the need for 14 kids to work the farm becomes surplus.

        Also the Pope needs to come out in favour of birth control, as would probably have a major effect on the growth in certain African and South American countries.

        On a slightly darker note: if the AIDS epidemic keeps spreading the way it does now in South Africa, they will have a negative population growth within the next ten years, and I assume it will be similar for a lot of Sub-Saharan countries.

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        • #5
          The main problem with the world is not over-population, it is inefficiency. Compare the high-population-density city-state of Singapore with, say, Calcutta. The efforts of the Indian population to improve its economic standing has been hamstrung by the bureaucratic labyrinth that is the Indian government.
          No, I did not steal that from somebody on Something Awful.

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          • #6
            The industrialized world's biggest problem is the fact that all the stupid, lazy people are reproducing at a much faster rate than the intelligent hardworking people. The reason this is happening is because natural selection no longer affects us.

            I propose eugenics.
            ...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
            ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty

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            • #7
              It is quite simple math that a population growth significantly larger than 0 is not going to be sustainable in any country in the long run.

              Unless the contries control the growth there is going to be trouble at some point.
              http://www.hardware-wiki.com - A wiki about computers, with focus on Linux support.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Caligastia
                The industrialized world's biggest problem is the fact that all the stupid, lazy people are reproducing at a much faster rate than the intelligent hardworking people. The reason this is happening is because natural selection no longer affects us.

                I propose eugenics.
                Jackass.
                12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                Stadtluft Macht Frei
                Killing it is the new killing it
                Ultima Ratio Regum

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by KrazyHorse


                  Jackass.
                  Good comeback!
                  ...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
                  ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty

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                  • #10
                    You don't deserve any better.

                    All those lazy Indians who didn't have the foresight to be born into nice, comfortable 1st World families.
                    12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                    Stadtluft Macht Frei
                    Killing it is the new killing it
                    Ultima Ratio Regum

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: World's biggest problem: Overpopulation? (Just something to think about)

                      This kind of thinking is one of the few things that can get me really upset. It shows an utter lack of understanding of how science, economics, and human nature function. And on a moral level, it is quite possibly the most inhumane doctrine in existence today. When you start to think of people as the problem, you have little regard for their health, their welfare, or even their lives.

                      And there are still people b1tching about China's population control efforts. I predict sooner or later Pakistan and India are going to experience a major social collapse due to population pressure.

                      Did you just seriously support the actions of one of the worst human rights offenders on the planet? Did you just support the actions of a regime that has consistently shown a callous disregard for human life?

                      For your information, India exports food. They were able to use modern (Western) technology to feed themselves and have a lot leftover. Meanwhile China continues to import food. Your prediction has no basis in reality. I would far rather live in India or Pakistan than China, now or at any time in the future. (unless they nuke each other, but that's another issue)

                      Originally posted by drake
                      It's the root of many of this worlds problems.
                      Is there too little ariable lands in the world, or too many people?
                      Ok mister Malthus, lets consider what has happened to worldwide food production in the last century. We are now feeding over 6 billion people, and on average they get more calories than the 1.6 billion people in 1900. We have proven that if we don't have enough land, than we can make more good land and/or put the land we have to better use.

                      Is doing everything we can do to continually extend average life span good for the earth? Is modern medicine solving problems on a micro level, while hurting things on a macro level?

                      Ever read the oriental proverbs about the benefits of old people? Knowledge and experience are what drive technological growth. Tell that 60 year old nobel prize winning chemist with a heart bypass operation that medicine is bad for the future of the world. Go ahead, tell him.

                      Are epidemics like aids just natures way of trying to contol its population?

                      No, AIDS is the result of human stupidity and ignorance. Improve education and teach people to use thought instead of instinct and these things wouldn't be a problem. Japan has a much higher population density than most African countries and last time I checked it didn't have a raging AIDS epidemic.

                      Quality of life is harden to sustain for a million people than 500000 people. It's very simple math. The more people you have, the more things have to be divided.

                      The average quality of life now is a lot higher than it was at the turn of the century. We are producing far more per person than anyone could have dreamed, even though there are so many more people now. Your math is wrong because you forget that people produce things so the more people there are the more things there are.

                      As a world, we really need to level off our population or start decreasing it, because this world just can't handle continues expansion. Simple math.

                      Malthus said that in 1798. Ehrlich said that in the 1960's. They were wrong. We have handled continuous expansion just fine. And since the UN estimates that world populatoin will level off at 8-9 billion, we will do fine well into the future without any draconian population control plans.

                      Are humans naturally aggressive and territorial to help control the earths population? Are wars in-evidable (history says they are) and in a way, necessary?

                      Wars are typically the result of short-sighted megalomaniac fools who want honor and glory.

                      Has medicine advanced too far? If everyone lives forever (significantly longer than in the past), and people don't slow down in the making babies department, this world will be overflowing soon.

                      Again, this is a fallacy. If it was true, Europe would be overpopulated and Africa would not be. The countries with the best medical care are invariably the ones with the lowest rate of population increase.
                      Any ideas on what the people of the earth could do?
                      We can learn and grow and produce and expand until we have a strong enough economic and technological base to finish the amazing gains of the past century and bring the health care and economy of the first world to everyone.

                      And don't give me that figure of three earths being needed to support America's standard of living. That's what science is for, to give us more resources and use the ones we have more effeciantly. The world used to depend on whale oil for lighting and other uses. Do you know what happened when we ran out of whale oil? Nothing. We used something else.

                      Yes, I know that Americans are wasteful. That's because many people are stupid and selfish. Our excessive consumption is not a necessary symptom of prosperity. I am fairly sure that Earth could support the entire world population on a standard of living similar to Japan's, even with current technology. We just have to make sure that the technology and institutions needed to insure health and welfare are spread to the whole world.

                      What you fail to undestand is that all people have value. People produce things. They produce knowledge, art, wisdom, food, and material goods. The more people you have, the more things you can you make. The only constraint is raw materials, and that is what science is for: increasing our ability to use resources. And who generates knowledge? People. If you improve education, respect human rights, and remove economic inefficiencies and externalities, people can take care of themselves, no matter how many of them there are.

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                      • #12
                        Re: World's biggest problem: Overpopulation? (Just something to think about)

                        Originally posted by drake

                        Quality of life is harden to sustain for a million people than 500000 people. It's very simple math. The more people you have, the more things have to be divided.
                        Alternatively, the more people you have, the more can be produced, the greater economies of scale apply and increased diversity of labour can be used. If you think this is cobblers prove to me that life was better when the total global population was 500,000 as opposed to 1,000,000. Or 5,000,000,000 for that matter.


                        As a world, we really need to level off our population or start decreasing it, because this world just can't handle continues expansion. Simple math.
                        Continued expension does not equal continual expansion. There's plenty of food to go around- it's wars and politics that cause famines.


                        Has medicine advanced too far? If everyone lives forever (significantly longer than in the past), and people don't slow down in the making babies department, this world will be overflowing soon.
                        House of cards syndrome. The bigger the house gets, the bigger the inevitable collapse will be. Use an antibiotic for one illness and you reduce resistance to others. We're heading for a very big plague in the future.

                        Sorry for the cut'n'pastes. I'm short of time.
                        The genesis of the "evil Finn" concept- Evil, evil Finland

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                        • #13
                          Would whoever looks after Caligastia please try a little harder to stop him making a berk of himself?
                          The genesis of the "evil Finn" concept- Evil, evil Finland

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                          • #14
                            Re: Re: World's biggest problem: Overpopulation? (Just something to think about)

                            Originally posted by Richard Bruns
                            And there are still people b1tching about China's population control efforts. I predict sooner or later Pakistan and India are going to experience a major social collapse due to population pressure.

                            Did you just seriously support the actions of one of the worst human rights offenders on the planet? Did you just support the actions of a regime that has consistently shown a callous disregard for human life?

                            For your information, India exports food. They were able to use modern (Western) technology to feed themselves and have a lot leftover. Meanwhile China continues to import food. Your prediction has no basis in reality. I would far rather live in India or Pakistan than China, now or at any time in the future. (unless they nuke each other, but that's another issue)
                            Jeez, are you terribly brainwashed! Have you been to China? Have you seen how much this country has improved in the last 20 years? Let's just compare some numbers between China and India, shall we?

                            The numbers from CIA World Fact Book: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html

                            Population
                            China: 1,273,111,290
                            India: 1,029,991,145

                            Average life span
                            China: 69 years for men, 73 years for women
                            India: 62 years for men, 63 years for women

                            Death Rate
                            China: 6.74/1000
                            India: 8.74/1000

                            Infant Mortality Rate
                            China: 28.08/1000
                            India: 63.19/1000

                            Literacy rate
                            China: 82% total, 90% for men, 73% for women
                            India: 52% total, 65% for men, 38% for women

                            GDP - Purchasing Power Equivalent
                            China: $4.5 trillion
                            India: $2.2 trillion

                            GDP per capita - Purchasin Power Equivalent
                            China: $3,600
                            India: $2,200

                            Population below Poverty
                            China: 10%
                            India: 35%

                            Exports/Imports
                            China: $232 billion/$197 billion
                            India: $43.1 billion/$60.8 billion

                            Telephone, lines/cells
                            China: 135 million/65 million
                            India: 28 million/3 million

                            Radios
                            China: 417 million
                            India: 116 million

                            TV sets
                            China: 400 million(1997)
                            India: 63 million(1997)

                            Internet Users
                            China: 22 million
                            India: 4.5 milion

                            Railways
                            China: 67,524 km
                            India: 62,915 km

                            Freeways/Highways
                            China: 16,000 km
                            India: 0 km

                            Airports
                            China: 489
                            India: 337


                            The numbers speak for themselves. Has the Indian or the Chinese government done a better job for its people? Both countries were found around the same time. India basically inherited many achievements left behind by the British, and the country has not suffered destructions from the WW2. On the otherhand, China suffered 10 million dead in the war against Japanese and another million in the following civil war, it had no industry to speak of(India had 5 times as many railways back then), it didn't get a single penny of economic from the West after the war, and it had to suffer countless turmoils instigated by the Chairman Mao.

                            Today, China beat India in every aspect of important indicators of a nation's quality of life. I don't care how many 'human rights dogma' you can throw at me, because the reality is different than what you think.

                            As for China importing food stuffs, it does also export its surpluses. China's agriculture doesn't produce everything, and some imports are totally normal. If China does not do any population control, it certainly needs far more import than the current level.
                            Last edited by Transcend; December 3, 2001, 19:03.

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                            • #15
                              *I* am the world's biggest problem.
                              Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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