EU considers plans to outlaw racism

[Kyle]

You already do. Poldermodel, legalising drugs, legalising prostitution, legalising euthanasia, etc. Plus read my comment below. This legaslation is nothing new.

In other words, when you can't solve problems, you give into them.

[Lonestar]

And in what continent do those countries lie?

Well, they ain't Dutch....

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Lonestar


Well, they ain't Dutch....

how do you know for sure?

Holland and Germany are located very close together

about the law.. bubble..POP!

one person raised a legitimate question though. How do we stop EU laws we don't like since the EU seems "distant".

Answer: through your government. And in the near future through the European Parliement.

The EU being distant is a problem for the EU too and it tries to solve it more than it did before.

Anyone who is interested should check out the belgian PM's initiatives on that one.

[History049]

OK, please go ahead and outlaw racism. I'll watch as the leaders of European countries get thrown into jail

[Imran Siddiqui]

I believe a lot of Americans were against the KKK march.

It'd still be allowed .

Look, THOUGHTCRIME... Orwell might have been right... just a few years off .

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Stefu
paiktis, what I see as the most distressing is that even if this doesn't go through, it still might be shade of things to come in brand spankin' new unified Europe. Only way to do something like that would be US-style loose federation, IMHO.

Not really. It seems to me like the product of a rushed "brainstorming" session...
It also seems like it is a "nice" political tool to "prove" who is less xenophobe than the other amongst the buerocrats of Brussels. But the last say is to the 15 ministers (AND the Parliement).

Well, this would at least get the support of two of big three (France and Germany) and quite a lot follows from France and Germany. Then there are countries ruled by Social Democrats or other such prties, which, IIRC, still make up the majority of European countries. (Mmm, are the new governments up already in Norway and Denmark? I'm not sure.)

Social democrats are not the same throughout Europe. They hold very similar values but not all believe in the same means to promote them. (IIRC 11 out of 15 states have social democrats in power).

Well, even the basic ideals aren't all that hot - lose of free speech and all that - and compromise implementation wouldn't be that hot an idea, either. And if you don't comply, you're a big mean racist and we won't play with you.

How does this law (THAT SUCKS BIG TIME) prevents you from speaking your mind? (maybe I missed something?)

They still couldn't go *too* far from the basic ideals of the legislation.

It depends on the form of adoption that will be chosen. If it is a reccomandation the member states don;t even have to do anything about it.
Also since the law is about the "harseness" of penalties, the national courts do have a big say INMHO.

[DinoDoc]

Don't tempt me.

Originally posted by paiktis22
How does this law (THAT SUCKS BIG TIME) prevents you from speaking your mind? (maybe I missed something?)

For instance, I could potentially have you thrown in jail for your "xenophobic" sentiments against Americans if the law passes. Mark L as well.

[faded glory]

Well.....not scared for Europe yet, wait a few years. As stupid people like MarkL continue to put there misguided faith in the EU.


Wont be long....they should start suspending national constitutions and banning other political partys. Hey, why not!? Nobody complained when they banned the Nazis and the Racists because they were simply unpopular political views (amazing..they consider themselves "democratic"?). So they might as well keep going...which they probably will.

[Bereta_Eder]

Ah! But here's the thing: I don't have any xenophobia against Americans

About the US government, sure.

BTW, I meant to edit the very phrase you quoted but too late now

I read carefully the article.

Stefu could you please provide a link to where you got this from?
It seems ultra anti - EU (I can guarantee it's british - no problem though ) and I have questions about it's objectivety and portraying of the facts. It seems VERY overblown out of proportion.

Having said that, I repeat that it sucks big time and will not pass.

Some "brilliant" EU mind tried to play holier than thou without being able to see beyond his/her noise...


Society will vomit this law like poison (if it is agreed upon, written, finilized then brought up for the green light of the council and then voted in favor by the parliement - see how far this is?)

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Wraith
--"Ordinary crimes would carry heavier penalities if they are motivated in any way by racism or xenophobia"

Won't this cause most of the population of France major problems?

Wraith
Warning: Whimsical when bored

(godamn it here's the quote again )


SOrry Wraith you got it wrong.

French are chauvinistic but not xenophobic. There's a difference,

According to the latest Europole only 7% of the french youth is xenophobic. (answered yes to the question: do you want immigrants to go back from where they came from).

That's the smallest percentage in the EU. Actually they are the less xenophobic.

[Goingonit]

I'll have to quote a *gasp* libertarian friend of mine: "your right to swing your fist stops at my nose".

Untill they try to hurt me, all those racist ****s can do whatever they want. It's not fine with me, it's just that I can't (or shouldn't) be able to abridge their rights to protect my brain from hearing bad things.

[Bereta_Eder]

I quote the wise penguinator:

They need to sort out the rules of the problem, not gestures towards crushing the symptoms. It is stupid. Education is the answer, not legislation of what would probably be unenforcable laws, and ones that could cause a lot of resentment.

That's what I think too.

[Wraith]

--"French are chauvinistic but not xenophobic. There's a difference,"

Yes, but how many countries have laws (strong suggestions?) regarding the use of foreign-import words?

If not the French, then the French Goverment would be in big trouble.

Wraith
You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Wraith
--"French are chauvinistic but not xenophobic. There's a difference,"

Yes, but how many countries have laws (strong suggestions?) regarding the use of foreign-import words?

If not the French, then the French Goverment would be in big trouble.

Wraith
You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you odd

*Holds up hand*

Me! Me!

[Saint Marcus]

Ok, before I go into detail to address the comments made here, let me explain the law as it exists here in Holland.

These laws have existed for decades. Nothing new here.

Freedom of speech exists here, but there's one condition. It isn't allowed to make hatefull remarks about certain specific groups (minorities mostly) in public will not be allowed. You won't get thrown in jail for that though, just a fine.

Some examples of things that happen(ed) here in Dutch politics)

Saying that all foreigners should be put in camps is an offense.

Saying in public that you think Holland is too crowded and you want to severely limit the admitance of foreigners in Holland, is not an offense.

Saying that being gay is as bad as stealing, is an offense. Fine $200.

Saying the Holocaust never happened is an offense.

NOTE: This also only applies to things said in public. As long as you keep it private it is allowed.

NOTE2: This is the Dutch situation



I re-read the article. Makes no sense at all really.

It was not clear yesterday how the law would affect radical Islamic groups that openly promote anti-Semitic and anti-Christian views.

An act of anti-semetism and anti-christianity by Islamic groups is an offense.

Nor was it clear how it would apply to political parties opposed to mass immigration, such as Austria's Freedom Party, Belgium's Vlaams Blok, and the Danish People's Party, all of which have become serious political forces.

Being oposed to mass immigration isn't an offense.

The law could potentially cover many stand-up comedians, and even Anne Robinson, who, during an appearance on BBC television this year, described the Welsh as "irritating".

A comedian saying Welsh are irritating isn't an offense.
A comedian saying Hitler was a great man and the holocaust never happened is an offense, unless said in a clearly non-serious way.

The proposals, which will require the unanimous backing of all 15 states, are aimed at ending the patchwork of different laws across the European Union and establishing a common definition that can be used by all judges.

This is of course a good thing.

The commission appears to have adopted the most restrictive code - Germany's - as the basis for the rest of the EU.

Germany only acts strongly against pro-Nazi sentiments (not a surprise). In other situations they aren't any worse or better than Dutch or French laws. Belgian laws are somewhat looser, but still have restrictions.

Nigel Farage MEP, the party's chairman, said: "I'm morbidly xenophobic about this new country called the European Union, so if that is covered by this law then I'm most certainly xenophobic and I could be extradited anywhere.

And someone is taking that comment seriously?


Obvious conclusion: article is extremely anti-EU, filled with obviously false or extremely stupid remarks, and it's all a lot of fuss about nothing. Note that the article also states Germany already has those type of laws, so why are so many people here on OT suddenly so shocked? It's a law that exists for 50 years!