The Israeli Retaliation Begins

[Rogan Josh]

I think terrorist attacks by anyone are deplorable. I am very much in favour of finding every member of Hamas and its related terrorist groups and stringing them up to dry.

But at what stage do they become terrorists? Many of you claim Arafat is a terrorist. He certainly was in the past. Personally I think that no-one who was previously advocating terror should ever be allowed into office. That would include, for example, Nelson Mandella in South Africa.

However, I don't believe that Arafat is a terrorist any more, and I believe that he genuinely wants peace. If you want to call him a terrorist then one must also recognize that the Israeli government are just a bunch of terrorists too. To paraphrase Mr Bush, anyone who supports terrorists are terrorists themselves.

You can't have it both ways - either both the Palestinian Authority and the Israeli govt are terrorists or neither is.

Personally, I would like to depose both and impose some sort of UN martial law on the place.

[History049]

This is NOT trolling. This is MY views, it is a COMMON SENSE view, and it is the RIGHT view. You may advocate left wing peace talk, but I know how it works and there will be no peace EVER!!

[Eli]

F-16 fighters attacked two targets in Jenin, and the Pals report about an explosion in an apartment of ones of Arafat's Presidential Guards, two are seriously injured.

[Solly]

Israel knows what it has to do if it wants to break out of this cycle of violence.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Rogan Josh
I think terrorist attacks by anyone are deplorable. I am very much in favour of finding every member of Hamas and its related terrorist groups and stringing them up to dry.

But at what stage do they become terrorists? Many of you claim Arafat is a terrorist. He certainly was in the past. Personally I think that no-one who was previously advocating terror should ever be allowed into office. That would include, for example, Nelson Mandella in South Africa.

However, I don't believe that Arafat is a terrorist any more, and I believe that he genuinely wants peace.

If Arafat has genuinely turned from terrorism and wants peace he can prove it TODAY. Let him arrest all the Hamas leaders, and extradite them to Israel immediately.

If he fails to do that, your statement about him does not stand.

LOTM

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Maybe we could just kill off both sides.

Well maybe you want to kill off all the Palestinians Guevara, but i do not. I cannot beleive that there is no potential leadership among them that will realize that this kind of violence is self-defeating. Arafat may not be the leader,) but his fall from power (if he fails to RAPIDLY change his ways) will certainly send a message to any subsequent Palestinian leader, just as the events in Afganistan are sending a message to those who shelter terrorism around the world.

LOTM

[lord of the mark]

The only way to save peace now is for the US and the Europeans to put enormous pressure on Arafat to crack down on Hamas. A few revolving door arrests arent enough - he must destroy all Hamas facilities, finances, infrastructure on PA soil. He must arrest every Hamas member to be found. The senior leaders must be extradited.

Then - and only then - it will be time for the world to ask Israel for concessions.

LOTM

[lord of the mark]

Re: Re: The Israeli Retaliation Begins

Originally posted by MOBIUS


Apparently Hamas have suicide bombers queueing up around the block eager to volunteer! (Guess they figure that if they're going to die anyway, they might as well take a few Israelis with them...)

Then let Arafat arrest them.

LOTM

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Giancarlo
If both the Israelis and Palestinians could get their asses to the peace table this wouldn't happen... no either side must continue killing each other. This is unbelievable and this shows my growing discontent with both the Israelis and Palestinian Authority.

They were at the peace table, and they can return if the violence stops. And Arafat must stop it. And it is not for you to be disconted with israel or the PA. It is for you to tell YOUR govt to put pressure on Arafat to crack down on terror now, so that peace negotians may proceed.

LOTM

[lightblue]

The main problem is that if Arafat does anything serious to Hamas or Islamic Jihad, he'll probably won't stay in power for more than few days after. Hamas enjoys at least a similar level of popular support as the PA. Now I think that Arafat's days are numbered anyway (too much pressure from both sides), however I think it is better if the Islamic fundamentalists don't get into power. The only way to properly ensure this is peace.

Which of course is easier said than done . The Camp David proposal that Barak offered is one option, but Sharon would never accept it. I think that as Arafat's position has become so precarious, he should agree with less than was offered last time. The Israeli government will also have to concede on some points (settlements probably being the main sticking point), and insist that as part of any peace deal, the PA either arrests all the main people behind the terrorist groups and hands them over to Israel, or allow the Israelis to come in and do the job for them.

[DinoDoc]

Is it really in Isreal's long term national interest to humiliate Arafat to the point where he will have absolutely no power to crack down on Hamas and the Islamic Jihad?

[Natan]

Arafat had more than 24 hours to stop the violence and he did not. If MOBIUS reports are true, then the bombing is even more justified, since it proves that Arafat will not close down open Hamas operation and recruiting of suicide bombers in the open. Arafat had his chance before, now he won't get it. He wants to use terrorism as a tool of negotiation, and that means that he is a terrorist.

Rogan Josh: How can the Israeli government be a terrorist entity? It does not inentionally kill civillians.

[Rogan Josh]

Originally posted by Natan
Rogan Josh: How can the Israeli government be a terrorist entity? It does not inentionally kill civillians.

If it is not killing them intentionally them it is bloody careless. Irael is a state which was founded on terrorism, so a holier-than-thou attitude seems a little misplaced. It is shameful that the British gave in to the terrorist demands.

Anyway, if a suicide bomber were to blow up George Bush, would he not be a terrorist?

[Natan]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Rogan Josh

If it is not killing them intentionally them it is bloody careless.

I don't really see any evidence that it's more careless than any other army.

Irael is a state which was founded on terrorism, so a holier-than-thou attitude seems a little misplaced. It is shameful that the British gave in to the terrorist demands.

The Irgun was not a terrorist organization, since it did not target civillians. Furthermore, the state of Israel was founded by Mapai, not the Irgun.

Anyway, if a suicide bomber were to blow up George Bush, would he not be a terrorist?

He might get labelled as such for propaganda purposes, but he's certainly not a terrorist in the sense that people who try to kill civillians are. Otherwise we would have to call George Bush a terrorist since he had Mohammed Atef killed without trial.

[Natan]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Is it really in Isreal's long term national interest to humiliate Arafat to the point where he will have absolutely no power to crack down on Hamas and the Islamic Jihad?

Seeing as he has no will to crack down on them in the first place, I don't see why Israel shouldn't protect its security itself.