Draft Dodgers: Traitors?

[Provost Harrison]

I'm not fighting for the ends of capitalism, laying my life on the line for the agenda of the rich...no thanks, I'd avoid that fight out of principle, not just civil liberties. There are a lot of reasons why I would refuse to fight or be drafted.

[chequita guevara]

In the late '80s the military redefined conciencious objector status to opposition to all wars ever, and not merely to a current war. So, if you believed that WWII was a just war, you don't qualify. Even if this weren't the case, CO status is very, very hard to get, and the military will most likely court martial you, as they did to most of the COs during the Gulf War. Of course, if you really believe in something, you should be willing to go to jail for that belief. Since very few people agree with the foreign policy of this government allof the time, it is very probable that a soldier will be sent to fight for a cause that he or she finds morally abhorent.

However, despite my opposition to this government and its wars, I'd serve if drafted, not out of any sense of duty, but to be an anti-war organizer (earning myself either a trip to the brig or the frontline on an especially dangerous mission). One interesting side effect of drafted armies is that they have the occassional tendency to refuse to fight (i.e., strike). This happened on such a large scale during the Vietnam War that it was necessary to abolish the draft. The same phenomenon ended WWI (military strikes in Russia, Germany, and Austria). So, as long as the military brass remembers this, it is unlikely they will favor instituting a draft unless the US is physically threatened.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
If I were drafted for what I considered sufficient cause then I would go readily and without objection. If, on the other hand, I were drafted for some sh*tty immoral war, then the State would have a better time trying to train a monkey to take my place.

The draft is used in extreme situations to cure a population of its apathy.

Now, now, we all know that the Canadian Military is filled with Trained Monkeys, regardless...

[Poppa Bear]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
To the best of my knowledge, the only time I've ever agreed with Slow is on his excellent "Best Car Chase" thread, and I don't think I've ever agreed with GP.

Until now.

The poll, which I'm not even bothering to answer because it's a false question (see Slow's first post for details), should actually read thus:

I'm against the draft because...
a) I'm against taking human life (i.e., I'm a conscientious objector)
b) I'm against putting myself in harm's way for my country (i.e., I'm a coward)
c) I believe that a free society should protect me, secure my rights, but never make any demands on me in return (i.e., I'm a selfish brat)

Pay your money, gents, and take your choice. But don't pretend choices b & c are honorable.

Those who chose a) should also consider if the other party has any objection to taking your life and if they are willing to die to keep from fighting.

Since no one has been drafted in over twenty-five years I don't see why this question is really that important.

I did serve by choice but it was to protect the future for my family, not to protect those who would be willing to live the rest of their lives in a concentration camp if it meant personal safety.

I oppose the draft because I feel safer with a military staffed by real men who are willing to fight to defend their nation than with one staffed with wimps who had to be forced to serve and would probably run when the **** hit the fan anyway.

[Rex Little]

Whether one is willing to serve in the military is a completely separate question from that which began this thread. The draft is slavery, pure and simple. A draft dodger is no more a traitor than a fugitive slave in the early years of this country was. (At least, he's not a traitor for dodging the draft; I suppose he could be one for other reasons.)

(I was in high school in the mid-60's, when the Vietnam war was ramping up. This thread brings back the embarrassing memory that at the time, I said that draft dodgers were traitors.)

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Lonestar


Now, now, we all know that the Canadian Military is filled with Trained Monkeys, regardless...

...while the American military just has untrained monkeys.

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by Rogan Josh
I wonder if GP and Slowwhand would support the draft or volunteer for service if they were Afghanis living under the Taliban?

We have a new contender for Most Stupid Post In A Public Forum.
Most damned certainly I would. What a no brainer.
Assuming, as I am, that you refer to the Northern Alliance.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Rogan Josh
I wonder if GP and Slowwhand would support the draft or volunteer for service if they were Afghanis living under the Taliban?

My willingness to serve is BECAUSE of how special this country is. I think it's worth it. That it's a good thing to do.

But Drake gave an appropriate answer to your scenario. (note the if clause).

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


...while the American military just has untrained monkeys.

Apes. Get it right.

[Imran Siddiqui]

GP, yes, in a way you are right. But you seem not to understand the idea of seperate spheres. You can have 'character' in one sphere, yet not the other. I guess being a Gemini, I can understand this much better than most .

However, we are hopelessly off topic, so if you want to continue... you know my PM .

[Seeker]

KH: As a Canadian you know of the Conscription Crisis here during WWII

Mac: "Conscription if necessary, but not necessarilly conscription"

Conscription is always an evil. If you think there is some threat to your way of life and that joining the Army will help stop it, then go ahead.

But keep in mind that the Army is NOT a democracy.

By joining you have forfeited many rights so you had better have a DAMN good reason. I can respect anyone wouldn't want to join, it's a lot to give up for a freethinking person used to speaking their mind.

Sometimes though the situation is such that joining is a moral move (for example otherthrowing the Taliban), so you have to respect those who really do the 'no greater love' bit...just don't hand anyone the 'my country, right or wrong' line...

About the 'your country has done so much for you, you should give something back' JFK thing, yeah sure but it doesn't have to be killing (unless in a real WWII situation).

Also, in my situation I really can't recall the government doing all that much for us...the constant helicopters burning our crops? The RCMP raids? Where I grew up 'our society' gave me jack ****, certainly not peace, prosperity, and security. We had to fight for all those things ourselves. The only service I feel grateful for is the Ontario Student Loan Program. And the health plan. I have never been to hospital, but my grandmother has and I am grateful for that (shoddy, rude, inefficient as it was). A 'gift' unasked for, unwanted, and unappcrieated is no gift. Maybe if I had grown up in a law abiding, normal community instead of a self-sufficient survivalist commune I would feel differently.

[*End Is Forever*]

Most senior military personnel despise conscription. They'd much rather have willing people to command.

[SlowwHand]

That's true, EIF.

As far as the suggestion that one can serve by methods other than military service, forget it.
The same people who absolutely don't want to be in the military, also don't want to serve by any other method either.
They've made that abundantly clear.
Which is why I get so pissed off.
All they want is the good things, without giving anything back.

BTW, the Peace Corps is looking for people to serve 2 years.
They'll even pay for your trips back home.
Oh nooooo.

BTW, part 2.
I'm a Gemini also, and I don't get it.

[faded glory]

Draft has been in service for 30 years already.

Sure.....people like Clinton should of been punished in some form. Not jail or death.....but fined a fee for running like pussies whilst so many others bit the bullet and went.

[faded glory]

edit=Draft has not been