Company fires all employees who smoke!

[Ming]

Yet again... you want to say that all gays aren't alike... but you want to claim all smokers are alike...

Just as there is a difference between gays, there is a difference between smokers.

Somebody who smokes a few cigs a day is totally different than a two pack a day person. And some smokers only smoke when they go out and party... again, totally different that a two pack a day smoker.

You are the one trying to make broad sweeping generalizations...

[Daz]

An observation:

A person works 8hrs a day min. and isnt allowed to smoke a cigarette for these 8hrs.

If a smoker is able to not smoke for 8hrs, I dont consider him a smoker.

[Last Conformist]

Difference is, smokers are evil. Kill 'em.

[Zoid]

Ming, the financial drain on the economic system may be lower in the US since the welfare system isn´t financed by taxes to a large extent. But it affects the society as a whole, and in Sweden the cost for smoking is thought to be around 4 billion $. This includes loss in productivity due to sick leave, healtcare costs, early retirement and such. Allthough swedish tobacco tax is rather high (about 50 % of the retail price) it only generates approx. 700 000 $ / year to the treasury department. I don´t think you can break out individual cost to the healtcare system in Sweden since it´s different than in the US. But if you add in all the costs above I´m sure that 40 $ / pack is quite accurate for the US.

Edit: I´m sorry if I sound incoherent. I´ve been staring at the screen all day. I think I need some fresh air...

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ming
Yet again... you want to say that all gays aren't alike... but you want to claim all smokers are alike...

A smoker is a smoker.

Smoking causes cancer, it's very well known...

Smoking is dangerous and risky in and of itself. Being gay is not.

They are different. Simple as that...

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Ming
Yet again... you want to say that all gays aren't alike... but you want to claim all smokers are alike...

You are the one trying to make broad sweeping generalizations...

Erm- some gay men (and lesbians) are (and always have been) celibate. No high risk sexual activity of any kind.

I grew up in a family of heavy smokers, and from what I recall, a smoker is a person who smokes. Cigarettes, cigars, joints, whatever. Those nasty coffin nails, full of those lovely toxins and carcinogenic chemicals.

There is a difference, you see....

[St Leo]

Look, tobacco does need to be outlawed along with alcohol and maybe caffeine. However, firing people for what they do in their private time is still unconscionable and unethical.

Drug tests are an invasion of privacy.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Ming
Somebody who smokes a few cigs a day is totally different than a two pack a day person. And some smokers only smoke when they go out and party... again, totally different that a two pack a day smoker.

Not really that much of a difference in elevated health risks.

[MikeH]

They could fire everyone who lives with a smoker, or everyone who goes to bars where smoking is allowed etc. as well. on the same health grounds. What do people think of that.

Anyway this is an absolutely disgusting decision no matter what people think about smoking/smokers. If the situation in the US makes companies need to do this, and also allows it then that's one f*cked up country.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Asher
A smoker is a smoker.

A gay person is a gay person, your point?

Smoking causes cancer, it's very well known...

Many things "can" cause cancer... that is very well known as well. However, there is NO proof that it WILL CAUSE cancer. It also has a lot to do with the AMOUNT a person smokes. Somebody who smokes one or two a day is at as much risk as somebody who lives in a major city due to polution.

Smoking is dangerous and risky in and of itself.

It "CAN" be, but not always, and again, it depends on the level you smoke, and how long you've been smoking.

Being gay is not.

But it also CAN be... and as a group, gays fall into a higher risk group.

If you want to consider ALL smokers are the same, then you have to do the same for gays.

All I'm asking is that you look at smokers as individuals, and not group them all together... which is what you are asking for gays.

SIMPLE FACTS

GAYS have a higher health risk factor
Smokers have a higher health risk factor

It varies dramitically by individual, but as groups, the statistics prove the above facts.

[rah]

Not all smokers develop cancer.
Not all gays get aids.

I see no difference.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by MikeH
They could fire everyone who lives with a smoker, or everyone who goes to bars where smoking is allowed etc. as well. on the same health grounds. What do people think of that.

Good idea.

[MikeH]

There are certain racial differences in healthcare needs. Certain genetic types are slightly more likely to get certain illnesses.

I presume this means that the company could fire all employees of a certain race on healthcare costs grounds too.

[alva]

Originally posted by Kamrat X
If the smokers should pay the true price of smoking, a pack of cigarettes should cost about 40 $ according to a study made by the Duke University of Durham, NC

No problem, let's make hamburgers cost 40$ too then, shall we.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ming
Many things "can" cause cancer... that is very well known as well. However, there is NO proof that it WILL CAUSE cancer.

The odds are likely, depending if you get some other form of cancer first or die from some other cause.

But it also CAN be... and as a group, gays fall into a higher risk group.

If you want to consider ALL smokers are the same, then you have to do the same for gays.

No -- I'm not grouping them based on category, I'm grouping them based on their actions and activity.

It would be fair to compare smokers to people who have unprotected sex, but not fair to compare them to gays. There is a difference.

All I'm asking is that you look at smokers as individuals

They're individuals making a conscious decision to smoke, which is known to drastically increase risks of very expensive and hard to treat illnesses.

I don't need to look at them as individuals when they've all made the same dumb choice.

It is fundamentally different to complare sexual orientation (an identity, a trait) to a conscious choice anyone can make with known harmful effects.