iPod shuffle, price vs the competition?

[MarkG]

http://www.apple.com/ipodshuffle/

$99 for 500mb, 149$ for 1gb

[Asher]

How to create an iPod Shuffle:


Step 4: Remove all but 240 songs.

[MarkG]

hmm nice

but what about the cost?
one 1gb model that i found was a creative which costed 30$ more than this apple beauty

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0006G9HMA/apolytonciviliza

[Asher]

Originally posted by MarkG
hmm nice

but what about the cost?
one 1gb model that i found was a creative which costed 30$ more than this apple beauty
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...olytonciviliza

$30 more for a 1GB player with a screen, voice-recording, line-in recording, and FM radio...

No-brainer, isn't it?

[MarkG]

hmm the competition is not afraid of apple

http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/01/12/notafraid/index.php

[MarkG]

and here is the answer

http://savagedoctor.blogspot.com/2005/01/case-for-ipod-shuffle.html

[Asher]

Originally posted by MarkG
and here is the answer
http://savagedoctor.blogspot.com/200...d-shuffle.html

I strongly disagree -- people will not buy the iPod shuffle as a fashion statement. It's the bottom of the line, crippled, el-cheapo version and everyone knows it.

Fashion statements are meant to say "look at me, I'm loaded and with style"...the iPod is marketed as the Abercrombie and Fitch of MP3 players, and the iPod Shuffle is like the Walmart.

The best part about the whole iPod thing is how the whole marketing movement isn't based around the product, but its perception. Apple is running radio ads in the Toronto area now, and they have some young guy just saying stuff like "You know the iPod's the coolest thing around, so now the iTunes Music Store is in Canada!" etc.

What's most amazing to me is how blatantly the market (which is admittedly quite large) is so dumb and shallow to embrace such a product based on image.

[MarkG]

well you're not a non-tech woman so we cant really use your opinion as a basis for discussion

[Asher]

Originally posted by MarkG
well you're not a non-tech woman so we cant really use your opinion as a basis for discussion

But as a gay man I know the mentality, and am around the personality a lot.

And I know that the guy doesn't understand what fashion-conscious people want.

They want something that says they have money, they don't want something that says "I couldn't afford the real thing".

The guy who wrote that isn't a non-tech woman either, so...

[Agathon]

The problem with all the ipod competitors is still the same: their software and user interfaces are inferior from an ease of use point of view. Creative's software is a joke, and Windows Media Player is an inferior copy of itunes (even Paul Thurrott, the notorious Apple hater admits this).

Of course this mystifies geeks like Asher, who believe that the rest of the world really wants every last ridiculous feature that they want, but it's just the way it is.

What is a big surprise is to find Apple undercutting the competition on price.

$30 more for a 1GB player with a screen, voice-recording, line-in recording, and FM radio...

1. Most people do not want voice recording. If they do, Belkin will no doubt offer a cheap peripheral for the ipod shuffle for those who do.

2. People generally buy players like the ipod to get away from the radio. There's a good reason for this: radio is bloated with commercials and the music selection is unimaginative and selected by Clear Channel or some other soulless corporation.

3. No screen. The screens on such small players are about as much use as screens on discmans, that is to say no use at all. Who looks at a screen while working out or running? Nobody.

But this ignores the whole point of the ipod shuffle - that it's a quick and easy way to fill up with a day's worth of random music and just let it play. Apparently Apple discovered that most people with ipods just used the shuffle feature. The Autofill feature will fill up the ipod shuffle with random songs from your library or from a selected playlist (with other criteria you can specify) and you can just go. It's fire and forget. If you want more features buy a regular ipod.

We'll see if Apple is right over the next few months, but there is already a 4 week waiting list for them.

No-brainer, isn't it?

Only if you have no brains.

[Agathon]

The best part about the whole iPod thing is how the whole marketing movement isn't based around the product, but its perception.

Most marketing campaigns are like this, including Microsoft's.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Agathon

The best part about the whole iPod thing is how the whole marketing movement isn't based around the product, but its perception.

Most marketing campaigns are like this, including Microsoft's.

Ain't that the truth. Just watch any beer ad. Or Coke vs. Pepsi ad wars. Marketing is all about image.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Agathon
The problem with all the ipod competitors is still the same: their software and user interfaces are inferior from an ease of use point of view.

Nobody even sees the software when they buy these products in the store, and most people don't actually like iTunes...

Further, just how is Creative's interface on, say, the MuVo line inferior? Apple's the one without a screen or any real way to navigate aside from "next" and shuffle...

Creative's software is a joke, and Windows Media Player is an inferior copy of itunes (even Paul Thurrott, the notorious Apple hater admits this).

Link that. if it's anything like your comment about Paul Thurrott being "excited" for Apple's new lineup (which is an amazing conclusion to be drawn from this article, called "Cheaper iMac? Who Cares?...)

What is a big surprise is to find Apple undercutting the competition on price.

It would be a big surprise if they offered feature parity and undercut price... it's not a big surprise that they screw the user and undercut the price.

1. Most people do not want voice recording. If they do, Belkin will no doubt offer a cheap peripheral for the ipod shuffle for those who do.

Peripherals add mess, they add weight, they add complexity. Having voice recording on such a perfect device for it is an honestly nice extra. I use voice recording on my iPaq all the time, and if I didn't have one, I'd use it on my MP3 player. I have a bad short term memory, so I use it to take internal memos/notes on what to do...

2. People generally buy players like the ipod to get away from the radio. There's a good reason for this: radio is bloated with commercials and the music selection is unimaginative and selected by Clear Channel or some other soulless corporation.

But it's nice when you're on a long trip and bored of the limited selection available on flash MP3 players.

3. No screen. The screens on such small players are about as much use as screens on discmans, that is to say no use at all.

Nonsense -- when you have 240 songs, you need some way to rapidly navigate. The MuVo has a 4 line interface, which allows it to categorize, select playlists, etc...a huge advantage.

Who looks at a screen while working out or running? Nobody.

I've seen your pic -- you wouldn't know the first thing about what people do while working out or running.

People look at the screen all the time to set something up to play. I go to the gym 3-4 times a week, I see this constantly. It's very, very rare to see someone turn it on without looking at the screen, then shoving it in their pocket. They usually select songs first, and then during as well...

Only if you have no brains.

Obviously a pre-req for such great joke talent you have.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Agathon
Most marketing campaigns are like this, including Microsoft's.

Not entirely.

I don't see Microsoft saying "use Windows XP to be cool, just like everyone else that is cool".

Though you can feel free to link me with such an ad.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Ain't that the truth. Just watch any beer ad. Or Coke vs. Pepsi ad wars. Marketing is all about image.

Marketing is all about image when you're dealing with a product with no real advantages or selling points.

The examples you gave are perfect -- Beer, Coke, and Pepsi. They're all simple little products without any selling points...

When a company stoops to only selling an image, you know they're selling something without any real substance. That's fine for drinks, but for technology, you like to see more with it. If it was all about image, all those TV commercials I saw about the HotWheels PC many years ago would've made it a huge seller...