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Teachers take a stand against anti-evolution teaching order
Originally posted by Whaleboy
He's far cleverer than you are Kuci, have some humility . Purpose and morality are, in essense, interchangeable in this respect, now while I disagree with him, Kant introduces the categorical imperative for this purpose*, which does not require God. Read his "Critique of Pure Reason" and then expect to be taken seriously.
Originally posted by Kuciwalker
No. Apples have no purpose. Our intent in cultivating apples is to eat them.
No, apples don't just appear on apple trees because we want to eat them. It's the other way around - we plant apple trees because apples grow on them. So, why do apples grow on them trees? The answer is to get animals eat the fruits, so they can help spread the seeds.
Thus, the purpose of apple is to be eaten.
(\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
(='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
(")_(") "Starting the fire from within."
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
No, apples don't just appear on apple trees because we want to eat them. It's the other way around - we plant apple trees because apples grow on them. So, why do apples grow on them trees? The answer is to get animals eat the fruits, so they can help spread the seeds.
Thus, the purpose of apple is to be eaten.
So basically you're explaining that we do, in a way, create apples. Which is consistent with my point.
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Nope, "purpose" does not imply a creator. The purpose of an apple is to be eaten, even if it doesn't have a creator.
Purpose does imply a creator because as soon as you have purpose you have to ask where that purpose came from.
'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"
G'Kar - from Babylon 5 episode "Z'ha'dum"
Purpose does imply a creator because as soon as you have purpose you have to ask where that purpose came from.
From the need of plants to spread their seeds in order to conquer new territories-a purpose that requires no creator's intent. NOw , can you answer what the purpose of an apple TREE is? Or a lion? or a slug?
And what is the ID explination of extinction- if a creator makesa a species, what is the point of lettting them disappear?
If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw
The reason people don't want to believe evolution is because most people grow up with an absolutist, "Platonic" concepts of morality and nature (the absolutist concept of nature being the anoying way people use "primitive", "advanced", "higher", and "lower", as if we were some how the goal of evolution ), and the philisophical implications resulting from natural selection throw the absolutist part out the window. I see this alot when that people say it is an insult to call ourselves apes, or when people use the phrase "you're acting like an animal" when a kid is being wild.
No. Apples have no purpose. Our intent in cultivating apples is to eat them.
UR and Kuci:
That's the point (or at least it should be). Who assigns the purpose? The (hungry) beholder.
What does God have to do with anything?
Nothing, and that's my point. Kant shows that morality and "purpose" as we bastardise it need not originate in God, and when we're at that stage, Occams razor cuts out God altogether.
Purpose does imply a creator because as soon as you have purpose you have to ask where that purpose came from.
No, purpose only implies a viewer.
"I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
"You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:
I have to agree with Theben. The liberal parts of the country have lower out of wedlock birth rates, lower divorce rates, lower welfare rates, and lower rates of sexually transmited diseases. Also the liberal states tend to have superior education systems compared to conservative states.
Women have joined the work force mainly because the cost of living has gone up but wages have stagnated for most job fields. It has nothing to do with conservative or liberal.
Originally posted by Whaleboy
That's the point (or at least it should be). Who assigns the purpose? The (hungry) beholder.
No, the creator (or user).
Nothing, and that's my point. Kant shows that morality and "purpose" as we bastardise it need not originate in God, and when we're at that stage, Occams razor cuts out God altogether.
Of course it need not originate in God. People are pretty good at having intentions on their own.
No, purpose only implies a viewer.
No, a creator or user. If I look at a rock, it doesn't give the rock purpose (unless I'm "using" the rock aesthetically). Purpose comes from an actor.
Originally posted by Oerdin
I have to agree with Theben. The liberal parts of the country have lower out of wedlock birth rates, lower divorce rates, lower welfare rates, and lower rates of sexually transmited diseases. Also the liberal states tend to have superior education systems compared to conservative states.
Women have joined the work force mainly because the cost of living has gone up but wages have stagnated for most job fields. It has nothing to do with conservative or liberal.
The real correlation is: Liberal areas also happen to be wealthier, and richer areas will have better schools, less family problems, and social ills. The question is, why are poor areas conserative?
If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw
. Purpose and morality are, in essense, interchangeable in this respect, now while I disagree with him, Kant introduces the categorical imperative for this purpose*, which does not require God. Read his "Critique of Pure Reason" and then expect to be taken seriously.
), and the philisophical implications resulting from natural selection throw the absolutist part out the window. I see this alot when that people say it is an insult to call ourselves apes, or when people use the phrase "you're acting like an animal" when a kid is being wild. 
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