US drops from the top 10 free economies list

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by DanS
Not quite true. The US government subsisted on land sales for much of the 19th century.

Even if they had (which they didn't, they had other significant sources of funding), it's not sustainable at all. There really is only so much land.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Taxation is central to every government form ever thought up.

Taxes are an obligation to the politically powerfull. The history of capitalism is a struggle against individual duties to others, specifically kings. Now it's a struggle against duty to society as a whole.

edit: actually, more accurately stated, the origins of individualism is a struggle against the political power of the king.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by DanS
Not quite true. The US government subsisted on land sales for much of the 19th century. Oil revenues form the funding for several governments nowadays. Several governments in the past have subsisted on investments of other types.

Etc.

I really think what you are talking about is a type of tax.

[Berzerker]

Ludd

They also think that they exist to pay for what everyone else wants, too. Those selfish selfless bastards.

I decided I want a SS system? Oh yeah, liberals also decide what everyone else wants and then accuse people of being selfish if they disagree. I wish liberals asked people to pay for what they want, they'd be libertarians then.

Kid

People who want to recieve something when they retire from working for you are the children?!

No, liberals who want other people to pay for what they want are like children in a candy store. I said this quite clearly, why the confusion? And whats that about working for me? The reason most seniors feel entitled to SS is because they've been taxed to pay for the program. The problem is: the politicians they elected to run the program ripped them off and can only pay back what was stolen by stealing from their children and grandchilden.

[Alexander's Horse]

you can certainly opt out of using government services - governments like people like that

You can't however opt out of paying for them

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Berzerker
Kid

No, liberals who want other people to pay for what they want are like children in a candy store. I said this quite clearly, why the confusion? And whats that about working for me? The reason most seniors feel entitled to SS is because they've been taxed to pay for the program. The problem is: the politicians they elected to run the program ripped them off and can only pay back what was stolen by stealing from their children and grandchilden.

Another attempt to bring you out of your own little world has failed.

[Agathon]

I think that annoying the Libertarians is a sufficient justification for the existence of taxation. It certainly increases my welfare to know how pissed off they all are.

[Berzerker]

AH

you can certainly opt out of using government services - governments like people like that

You can't however opt out of paying for them

Which means liberals are making me pay for what they want.

Kid

Another attempt to bring you out of your own little world has failed.

You should know we're iced in here so my little world will have to suffice for now.

Aggie - so you take pleasure in the suffering of others? I knew your ideology was based on envy but thats a new twist. You must have had a really big grin on your face the day after Christmas.

[Agathon]

Aggie - so you take pleasure in the suffering of others? I knew your ideology was based on envy

Since when does sadism have anything to do with envy?

[Ned]

I personally have no objection to taxation. I think, though, that taxes should be structured to meet the required government revenue while simultaneously maximizing economic growth. This is a fundamentally different philosophy from socialism who uses taxation and social programs to shift incomes from one class to another cares not one whit about economic growth.

[Berzerker]

Since when does sadism have anything to do with envy?

I said this was a new twist in addition to envy.

I knew your ideology was based on envy but thats a new twist.

See?

[Kidlicious]

Berzerker is on about envy again. Yes Berzerker, poor people are envious I'm sure. However, not everyone who is not a libertarian is poor or envious. They're just sensible people, with a desire for justice.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ned
I personally have no objection to taxation. I think, though, that taxes should be structured to meet the required government revenue while simultaneously maximizing economic growth. This is a fundamentally different philosophy from socialism who uses taxation and social programs to shift incomes from one class to another cares not one whit about economic growth.

I don't think economic growth is all that important. Stability and equality are more important.

[Berzerker]

Kid -

Berzerker is on about envy again. Yes Berzerker, poor people are envious I'm sure.

No, the liberal/statist ideology is based on envy. I was poor (even homeless for a bit) but I wasn't envious...

However, not everyone who is not a libertarian is poor or envious. They're just sensible people, with a desire for justice.

The only poor people I mentioned were the people being taxed to pay for the retirements of richer people.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Agathon
I think that annoying the Libertarians is a sufficient justification for the existence of taxation. It certainly increases my welfare to know how pissed off they all are.

same here