Why I am not a Christian

[Berzerker]

The NT makes it clear the Jesus was God.

Thats illogical, Jesus repeatedly referenced his Father and we as his children, including himself.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by bayraven
The NT makes it clear the Jesus was God.

But Jesus never calls himself such. The man can't be held responsible for the bastardization of his message by zealous disciples.

[bayraven]

But he did. He told the disciples "If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father" and "the Father and I are one". He enraged the Pharisees for what they called blasphemy when he said "before Abraham was I AM". I AM being the name God gave for Himself to Moses.
EDIT- it was not Moses but one of the prophets

[Berzerker]

But he did. He told the disciples "If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father" and "the Father and I are one".

That could mean his message came from God, Jesus repeatedly referred to God as a separate entity.

He enraged the Pharisees for what they called blasphemy when he said "before Abraham was I AM". I AM being the name God gave for Himself to Moses.
EDIT- it was not Moses but one of the prophets

Read "The Mythmaker", the Pharisees were actually sympathetic to Jesus. It was the Sadducees who hated Jesus because he was a threat to them, not the Pharisees - the legal branch of Jewish culture.

[bayraven]

that's why i went with three references

[Berzerker]

Also, Bayraven, read "The Riddle of the Dead Sea Scrolls by a woman whose name escapes me. She shows that the Essenes and Jesus were connected. She shows that the NT makes sense only if we view it within the context of Essene culture and that the Essenes "duplicated" the religious institutions of Jerusalem in their Dead Sea home because they felt the Romans and their Sadducee puppets had corrupted the Temple etc. "The Father" in that context was not God but the head of an Essene faction. Jesus was a bigshot in one Essene faction opposed to another faction that wanted a more confontational approach to the Romans.

[Berzerker]

that's why i went with three references

Jesus referred to God as a separate entity many times.

[bayraven]

I make no pretense to the type of credentialed scientific minds knowing the difference between M&M vs. G string theories, but riddle me this: I've seen it argued that an omnipotent Deity cannot affect our dimension without detection. If we are pondering the existence of an omnipotent (all powerful- all things within His control), isn't it possible that He could interrupt the Flux Capacitor, affect mankind however He wants, and then re-harmonize time and space? Or does omnipotent stop at the waters edge of what we think He can do?

[bayraven]

Originally posted by Berzerker


Jesus referred to God as a separate entity many times.

You are right. The initial thrust here was the statement that Jesus never claimed to be God. That is incorrect.

[Berzerker]

He didn't, you're taking something literally that needs to be read within a symbolic context. If you are right then Jesus contradicted himself everytime he referenced God as his/our Father.

[Berzerker]

I've seen it argued that an omnipotent Deity cannot affect our dimension without detection. If we are pondering the existence of an omnipotent (all powerful- all things within His control), isn't it possible that He could interrupt the Flux Capacitor, affect mankind however He wants, and then re-harmonize time and space? Or does omnipotent stop at the waters edge of what we think He can do?

God needed a rib from Adam to create Eve, does that sound omnipotent? To punish Pharaoh, God murdered Egypt's first-born. Does that sound moral or logical? As to your question: an omnipotent deity can by definition do what it wants.

[bayraven]

It’s not a contradiction if you consider the triple aspect of the Trinity. I’m not asking you to believe it, but it is part of the Christian context.

[Berzerker]

But not part of the Jewish context. The trinity was not even a Christian invention but another borrowed pagan idea to facilitate conversion. The trinity goes all the way back to the Sumerians

[Berzerker]

When Jesus was explaining OT divorce law, he said God allowed that law because the hearts of men were hard (dont ask me to explain that one). Why didn't Jesus say "He" allowed the law?

[bayraven]

I'm finally having fun with this, but it's past one in the morning so I'll leave with one more response. He CHOSE to make woman from a rib for symbolic purposes that you can infer if you don't already know. He warned Pharaoh over and over BWO Moses, and the last plague worked.
You know, I've heard there is an Egyptian lawyer suing for gazillions over the gold and household effects that the Israelites took with them during the exodus.