Why I am not a Christian

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

What if you believe in him as a man and a moral guide, but not as the son of a deity? Blah blah blah?

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
What if you believe in him as a man and a moral guide, but not as the son of a deity? Blah blah blah?

Then you still aren't Christian.

Islam believes in him like that, are they Christian?

ACK!

[Kontiki]

My guess is that you need to believe in the divinity of Christ to be a Christian. Could be wrong, though.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Sorry- all I heard was "blah blah blah". Could you run that past me again?

[GePap]

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
Sorry- all I heard was "blah blah blah". Could you run that past me again?

Jesus is one of the prophets in the Koran, which accepts the idea of his virgin birth.

That said, they do not view him as devine-and they are certainly not Christians.

[Whaleboy]

I always saw "Christian" to mean either 80% Jewish + Jesus, or semitic monotheism with a "focus" on Jesus as it were (looking at the boundary of old testament and new). What focus means will obviously vary per Christian.

[Last Conformist]

I suppose the appropriate test for being Christian would be recognizing Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Tuberski


Then you still aren't Christian.

Islam believes in him like that, are they Christian?

ACK!

Anti-trinitarian Christians believe they are Christians- especially given that the doctrine of the trinity is not found in the Christian Bible.

' The Unitarians drew their membership to a large extent from the scientific professions and their outlook tended to be rational and individualistic. The original intentions of the movement was to unite all Non-conformist groups but this ended in failure. There is no set doctrinal beliefs that all Unitarians agree on. In fact, the most important aspect of Unitarianism is the right of individuals to develop their own religious opinions. Therefore the bond between them consists more in their anti-dogmatism than in any uniformity of belief. However, Unitarians tend to believe that Jesus Christ was a human religious leader to be followed but not worshipped. Unitarians argued that Jesus is the "great exemplar which we ought to copy in order to perfect our union with God".

Unitarians believed that social evils were humanly created, not God inflicted, and therefore could be remedied by human efforts. Unitarians were strong advocates of democracy and argued that each congregation should manage itself without outside control. This included the power to select and discharge ministers.'

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/PRunitarian.htm

A noted anti-trinitarian martyr:

'Like many students of faith today, Michael Servetus envisioned a common spiritual reality greater than any creed. He wrote 'THE RESTITUTION OF CHRISTIANITY' as a call to return to Christianity of the Gospels rather than the dogmas of the creeds. Discovered as the author of this heresy, he was arrested in Vienne, but escaped, only to be recognized in Geneva and condemned to death by flames. The sentence was carried out on the 27th of October 1553. As Servetus died, he said, “Jesus thou son of the eternal God, have mercy upon me.” It is recorded that Calvin’s associate, Farel, said, “If he would only say, ‘Jesus. Thou eternal Son of God,’ we could cut him free.”

The example and writings of Servetus influenced the founding of the Unitarian Churches in Poland and Transylvania. In his person Servetus linked religion and science, setting a pattern which lived on Unitarian tradition through Joseph Priestley, Linus Pauling, and today in persons such as Tim Berners-Lee.'

http://www.hibbert-assembly.org.uk/Servetus

[bayraven]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
To me, good and evil do not exist, all they are are sides to me, facets, visages.

How can the actions of John Wayne Gacey not BE evil, or at the very least bad / wrong?

For purposes of this discussion, i wish i had spent less time with Seutonius and Herodotus, and more (any) time with Kant or Pascal. To that extent, Molly, I appreciate the perspective on Unitarianism.

[Whaleboy]

How can the actions of John Wayne Gacey not BE evil, or at the very least bad / wrong

Because in order for something to be categorically evil it needs to be absolutely evil, and thus in essense evil must be a property and it's consequences must also be evil, both of which are plainly false, hence I hold evil to be subjective, and relative to context. Some find that unacceptable, and for sure the proposition that someone builds a death star and blows up earth is not evil or kills/abuses kids is not evil, but the emotive nature of the situation both precludes and demonstrates the subjectivity. Such terms as "evil" or "bad" or "wrong" have specific contextual meanings. Indeed, I cannot reconcile the notion of absolute evil with moral relativism, which I hold.

[Berzerker]

I suppose the appropriate test for being Christian would be recognizing Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah.

Then Jesus sure wasted his time with all those parables and lessons in morality.

[Brundlefly]

Originally posted by molly bloom


As disappointing as it may seem, there isn't an atheist book of rules, club, special keyring, or codewords, and no secret meeting place late at night for rambunctious laughs.


Each atheist is unique- there are no atheist dogmas, only rather the beliefs of individual atheists.

So some might believe in the supernatural, but most that I have met do not.


Since I do not believe in a supernatural deity, logically I shouldn't believe in the 'supernatural' anything else.

But then I've met Christians and Muslims and Jews who read their horoscopes in the daily papers, and logically they shouldn't be reading or giving credence to such writings, if they are adherents of their faiths.

Life is funny like that.

If you can conceive the absence of a supernatural deity then you can also conceive the presence of one.. There is no way to prove either existense or non-existense of a deity. That is why atheism seems silly to me.. Unless you are telling me that you have 'faith' that there is no God. But that makes you just as dogmatic as those who have faith in a God..

[bayraven]

Originally posted by Berzerker


Then Jesus sure wasted his time with all those parables and lessons in morality.

are you saying that faith in Christ as the Messiah and parables on morality are mutually exclusive?

[Snowflake]

Sounds to me you believe in agnosticism then bfg, is that right?

[Brundlefly]

Originally posted by Snowflake
Sounds to me you believe in agnosticism then bfg, is that right?

Yes. I participate in a Christian church but purely for social reasons. I sit in church every week and listen to sermons but they dont move me at all. I wish I could take Kierkegaard's leap and be as fully committed as the others in the community, but it doesnt feel right. I go there because I get some feeling like I belong, even though I hide my true feelings from the others and know that I only "belong" in a limited sense.. If there was a similar body of people with whom I could be involved that shared my beliefs in existential humanism, I would also socialize with them, however those people are difficult to find ...