Breaking News: Bush Personally Authorized Torture

[dannubis]

/ governement official

it is all one big lie...

nothing of this is true ...

oh and btw gays and abortion people are bad because god said so

/ massed nod

Nothing of this is true

/ life goes on

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Ted Striker

Dude, Reagan wasn't perfect, but DON'T EVEN put Bush in the same category as Reagan, it's disgusting, Reagan's own son said he was an idiot.

Considering that Reagan conspired in mass murders in Latin American countries, this is a masterful understatement of yours.

[mindseye]

Whether this was torture or just nastiness is not that terribly important. As has been widely noted, whatever this behavior was, the fact that it was condoned at such a high level has been devastating to America's effectiveness as a human rights champion.

The US now has little credibility in criticizing China's human right's record, for instance. Thoses photos of hooded, wired figures damaged America's reputation and influence abroad in ways that will take many years to undo.

It outrages me that these neocon buffoons have deliberately and unashamedly squandered what was once something Americans could be proud of.

[germanos]

Originally posted by mindseye
It outrages me that these neocon buffoons have deliberately and unashamedly squandered what was once something Americans could be proud of.

You'd wish that was true.
It's much more horrid then that.

The Americans are not proud of these things anymore, that's why they voted the buffoons into office.

[Q Classic]

Those poor harmless men.. they only blow themselves into crowder marketplaces, kidnap people and behead them.. they sure don´t deserve this

wait, i thought moral relativism was something that those dirty liberals did. you know, saying that things like torture can't be all bad if some other societies commit murder for fun.

===

The point is it shouldn't matter WTF is president. If your forces are doing the right thing, they are the right thing under Clinton, Gore, Bush, Kerry, or anyone else.

Can you see this in anything other than an anti-Bush light? That is what I was asking.

since when is condoning abuse of prisoners "the right thing"?

personally, if it were clinton's or gore's forces doing this, i'd still be rather unhappy with them.

===

Sorry, Ted, sleep deprivation don't cut it for a scandle.

scandal

===

Well the way I see it, sleep deprivation is not torture...

Sensor deprivation, not sure....

What I DO consider torture is stress positions. ...

it's still abuse, plain and simple. the glory of dogs, sleep, and sensory deprivation is unlike beatings and shocks, they don't leave marks.

[The Emperor Fabulous]

If I were ever tortured, I'd tell them exactly what they wanted to hear as soon as I could. Doesn't matter if its the truth or not...if I figured out what they wanted to hear in order to be able to sleep or get the dogs away or eat or see what the heat near my balls was, I'd tell them.

It'd be no use torturing me. Just like torture is of no real use besides bloodlust and payback.

[Shogun Gunner]

Why all these techniques? Doesn 't Sodium Penthanol (spelling?) extract the truth from an unwilling subject better? or is that not reliably effective?

[chequita guevara]

It's like being drunk. You're more suggestable, but you'll pretty much agree to anything.

[Shogun Gunner]

Ah, so not really very accurate. I surprised there hasn't been some little nasty discovering of chemicals or techniques to extract information from the brain. Humananity can be disgusting like that and scientists can be that naive.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Doesn 't Sodium Penthanol (spelling?) extract the truth from an unwilling subject better? or is that not reliably effective?

In addition to what che said, when the US signed the UN Convention Against Torture, we specifically put in a declaration during ratification that using Sodium Penathol to get information would be deemed torture. While we have all sorts of splitting hairs over whether this is torture, we've specifically said that using that substance is torture (even though it is not in the document itself).

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
we specifically put in a declaration during ratification that using Sodium Penathol to get information would be deemed torture.

(even though it is not in the document itself).

[Imran Siddiqui]

Have you never heard of RUDs? Reservations, Understandings, and Declarations? Countries, while ratifying treaties can issue reservations on certain parts (as long as it does not frustrate the main intent of the treaty). With the UN Covention Against Torture, we expanded the treaty definition to include Sodium Penathol during our ratification.

[MalevolentLight]

You know I was going to write here a response about how the ACLU can't be trusted and is a hypocritical organization that supports NAMBLA and collects data on its members and donors all the while accusing corporations of doing the same thing and whines about the military posing as FBI agents when interrogating terrorists, which they say is torture...but then I realized I am speaking to a fringe group of people that are outcasts of society who have nowhere else to be heard except on a forum where they whine about how society has wronged them and how the rich must give them money and so I decided it would be better to just let you continue whining here in vain since it obviously isn't affecting anyone. Die or disappear into oblivion, for no one cares about what a bunch of deviants hopped up on anti-depressants have to say.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Originally posted by MalevolentLight
You know I was going to write here a response about how the ACLU can't be trusted and is a hypocritical organization that supports NAMBLA and collects data on its members and donors all the while accusing corporations of doing the same thing and whines about the military posing as FBI agents when interrogating terrorists, which they say is torture...but then I realized I am speaking to a fringe group of people that are outcasts of society who have nowhere else to be heard except on a forum where they whine about how society has wronged them and how the rich must give them money and so I decided it would be better to just let you continue whining here in vain since it obviously isn't affecting anyone. Die or disappear into oblivion, for no one cares about what a bunch of deviants hopped up on anti-depressants have to say.

Well that would make you an outcast among outcasts, the fringe of the fringe, wouldn't it?

By the way... periods are your friend.

[Dr Strangelove]

I don't believe that the torture of prisoners will be a political issue in the US within the forseeable future. I doubt that more than a small fraction of the population cares. If the government of Iraq can't be stabilized after the upcoming election and the light at the end of the tunnel begins to fade, then the American people will be concerned.