Eliminate Social Security - Dont 'Privitize it'

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Berzerker
I think Jim Hightower did, but I can't be sure.

He did. He has a book with a similar title.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


It was first instituted during the Civil War. It only became constitutional much later. I was off by 20 years, actually, but the point stands - LoA doesn't know what he's talking about.

80 is nearly 100.

[Dis]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


It was first instituted during the Civil War. It only became constitutional much later. I was off by 20 years, actually, but the point stands - LoA doesn't know what he's talking about.

a quick search solved this riddle

It seems it was instituted during the civil war. but later removed and brought back later.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax#History_of_income_tax_in_the_USA

[Kuciwalker]

No, they simply rescinded the original. It appears that they immediately, or almost immediately, replaced it with a different one.

[Berzerker]

The income tax in previous incarnations was temporary and not defined the way it is now, and the turning point was WWII. That's when the lies told by the Democrats/Republicans responsible for the amendment were exposed - especially the lie that only the "rich" would pay it and the rate would never top 7 or 10%. But the SCOTUS at the time said the amendment gave Congress no new powers, i.e., the Constitution already allowed a tax on income (as defined). The problem as I understand it is that politicians have re-defined "income" to include more and more of our labor when the definition back then limited what kind of "income" would be considered as income subject to the tax.

[chequita guevara]

IIRC, the amendment allows Congress to tax income. It doesn't provide any limitations. I don't see why we needed an amendment, since the Constitution grants Congress the authority to levy taxes.

[Kuciwalker]

The income tax in previous incarnations was temporary and not defined the way it is now, and the turning point was WWII.

Ironically, I remembered the factoid about the income tax from one of DF's rants about Lincoln that he implemented the income tax which was supposed to be a temporary measure but ended up being permanent.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
IIRC, the amendment allows Congress to tax income. It doesn't provide any limitations. I don't see why we needed an amendment, since the Constitution grants Congress the authority to levy taxes.

It may have to do with this:

Clause 4: No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken.

[chequita guevara]

/me nods to the wise young one.

[Whoha]

Originally posted by Geronimo


First income tax was during the civil war right? something like 70 years before ww2.

that was ended after the war. Permenant income tax didn't come about until around the time of the first world war.

[Odin]

*insert anti-Libertarian rant*

[Dinner]

Bush keeps claiming he can privatize social security for $3 trillion but all of the economists seem to believe that $7-$8 trillion is a more realistic number. Bush knows we can't afford $8 trillion when the nation's GDP is only around $12 trillion.

Privatization truly seems like a Republican plot to destroy social security in steps.

[Nubclear]

Old people should go into the Recycling Tanks.

[Berzerker]

IIRC, the amendment allows Congress to tax income. It doesn't provide any limitations. I don't see why we needed an amendment, since the Constitution grants Congress the authority to levy taxes.

I don't read enough of the material from the anti-income tax activists but I think their argument is that "income" was defined in a much more limited manner back then. It might be because of the clause Kuci quoted... Essentially. labor was not considered income. I think the income tax was more related to the rise of corporations...

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Whoha


that was ended after the war. Permenant income tax didn't come about until around the time of the first world war.

Wrong.

From the wikipedia article:

In order to help pay for its war effort in the American Civil War, the United States government issued its first personal income tax, on August 5, 1861 as part of the Revenue Act of 1861 (3% of all incomes over US $800; rescinded in 1872). Other income taxes followed, although a 1895 Supreme Court ruling, Pollock v. Farmers' Loan & Trust Co., limited the sources of income that Congress could tax without apportionment.

Which obviously means there were income taxes in 1895 (and implies that they were there prior to 1895; the most likely situation is that when they repealed the income tax in 1872 they replaced it with a different one).