Eliminate Social Security - Dont 'Privitize it'

[JohnT]

Oh, I'm not touching that one.

[GePap]

You pervert

[Odin]

Originally posted by David Floyd


Sounds like her, and maybe your, problem.

And you guy wonder why I think Libertarianism is evil?

[Jaguar]

Evil

[GePap]

Originally posted by Jaguar
Evil

Explains quite a lot actually.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

how much would it cost the govt to refund everyone who has paid into the scheme?

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Ming
While I have no intention of counting on SS for my retirement (even if it still exists, it won't pay enough to actually survive on), I would like to see some return on my investment for all the money stolen from me over the years... I've been kicking in a large amount over the last 27 years

You have seen a return on investment. You've been able to live in a society in which the elderly live longer, healthier, more fundamentally decent lives. That's not money in your pocket, but it is your contribution to making your nation and your world a more civilized place -- and that contribution has paid off nicely.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
how much would it cost the govt to refund everyone who has paid into the scheme?

Well, there are several TRILLION in the SURPLUS fund for SS, thought of course the government has been dipping into it to fund other soending for a decade perhaps.

But, it would take at least 5 TRILLION to "pay people back"

The notion that you should get what you put in is silly. I get less for my federal taxes than someone in Mississippi. So what? Its all one government, one system. So, SS tax is just like the Gasoline tax, a specific tax for a specific purpose. Thus in no way is it a "ponzi scheme" as some here (pchang AHEM) claim. The issue is one of to whom we give benefits under the program. Institute caps on income, up the retirement age, and you get solvency for much longer than the 50 years we have right now.

[Agathon]

Anyone else for a law whereby Libertarians are thrown into jail for no other reason than to see the looks on their faces?

[Berzerker]

So you admit that libertarianism is completely heartless?

If you'll admit liberalism is completely brainless. If we can agree on these, I'd sooner listen to the "heartless" halfwit than the brainless liberal...

Btw, freedom is not heartless and I don't think history is replete with free and heartless societies, it tends to be the authoritarian regimes that produce this heartlessness, i.e., the absence of freedom. Of course this doesn't phase liberals since the autocrats they seek to run our lives are liberals and once we are ruled over by "benevolent dictators", all will be right with the world.

But Mike, the market will miraculously make everyone well off and healthy, just like Victorian Britain did.

Victorian Britain was the result of a caste system, not a free market.

No one is poor because of taxes, plenty of people are not hungry thanks to taxes.

People have lost their property holdings because of taxes on supposedly private property. It wasn't uncommon for the poor to be driven off their property after politicians hit them with property taxes they couldn't afford, so unless you think being evicted made these people richer, you don't know how silly that sounds. More people have starved as a result of government policies than the lack thereof...

You have seen a return on investment. You've been able to live in a society in which the elderly live longer, healthier, more fundamentally decent lives. That's not money in your pocket, but it is your contribution to making your nation and your world a more civilized place -- and that contribution has paid off nicely.

Welfare systems tend to break families apart. SS made it much easier for children to leave the folks somewhere else and welfare programs replace fathers with bureaucrats. When social conservatives point out that out-of-wedlock births are escalating because of welfare, the few liberals who try to respond claim out-of-wedlock births are increasing throughout the 1st world. Well duh, they have welfare states too.

[Berzerker]

Anyone else for a law whereby Libertarians are thrown into jail for no other reason than to see the looks on their faces?

If you want to see what anger looks like, I'm sure finding a mirror would be much easier. But when did y'all start calling your "re-education centers" jails?

[Ming]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
You have seen a return on investment. You've been able to live in a society in which the elderly live longer, healthier, more fundamentally decent lives.

And you think that SS is the cause of this...



And no GePap... I NEVER expected to get back what I put in... but I do want to see SOMETHING out of it

[Dis]

I'm with Ming. I don't want to see Social security go away.

I may score libertarian on those internet quizzes, but I'm not really a libertarian.

I realize we live in a society. Even though I am responsible enough to invest my money far, far better than the goverment can do, most people cannot. They'd just blow their money.

It benefits society that the goverment furnishes irresponsible people with enough money to live when they are older.

The goverment will probably have to raise the retirement age to 68 or 70 though.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Ming
but I do want to see SOMETHING out of it

Do pyramid schemes ever end well for the suckers that contribute to it?

[Dis]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Do pyramid schemes ever end well for the suckers that contribute to it?

I fail to see how it is a pyramid shape. enlighten me.

If anything, it's a reverse pyramid (more retired people than working population).