com/cap/com debate - laboring under delusions

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kidicious


That's exactly why I said that it's not a real situation that would work with capitalism. All that you have done is show that capitalism can't work that way, and we already agreed on that.

I don't believe in your vision but I am an enlightened capitalist that really really wants to pay my workers "fairly". I have no desire to exploit anyone but I want to run a business in the real world and not in fairy land. All I asked was for you to say how I should do that in your vision of fairness.

I am not suprised that your solution is so clearly impossible and impractical

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Azazel
Well, the product itself wouldn't differ, necessarily. We wouldn't tell the people that azazelian toilet paper will make you popular, and appealing to the opposite gender , either, if you catch my drift.

Yes, but would there be several qualities and prices? While it is positive that the State Company doesn't try to artificially increase the incentive to buy the product through agressive advertisement, what about the other two incentives (higher quality / lower price) ?

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Azazel
Ok, my system:media publicly owned, and separated from the government, like a different branch.

Ok who funds the "media" ? Do they charge for a newspaper or is it freely available. If they charge, are they expected to recoup costs? If there is funding required, isn't the media already in the hands of the government despite claims to be separate

[Arrian]

I guess the key, to me, is how this would shake out for the workers, Az, in terms of what they get for a job, where, etc.

The government, via lots of elected officials, will presumably decide what to make, how, how much, etc. What is the method by which it gets people to work to make the things it decides to make? Forgive me if this has been asked & answered earlier... too many threads, I think Will there be a wage differential, some other form of benifit/incentive, or will it be more authoritarian than that?

In short, how will labor be allocated?

-Arrian

[Az]

Higher quality Lower price

You can't really discuss a lot of this stuff about toilet paper, you know. There will be a wiping class toilet paper, and simple small-toiletpaper-sized tissues for wiping small objects, I guess.

There will be a certain competition in prices, as well, I suppose. (That's where retailers come into play, I haven't discussed them at all, btw! Allow me to form a plan on this one )

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Azazel
Ok, my system:

Employment would work the following way: Education will be according to quotas, and the best X students will get into this or that department .

Do people make different amounts of money based on their position and or performance. In variable demand jobs can people earn OVERTIME?


Can a person that has filled a highly skilled job ( having taken a quota seat) be permitted to quit and do something else?

Is there free competition for employment positions.

Is unemployment possible of does the state guarantee jobs for all.

Are their any rewards for innovation or invention ( beyond the respect of your peers and a write-up in the state media.?

[Az]

Ok who funds the "media" ? Do they charge for a newspaper or is it freely available. If they charge, are they expected to recoup costs? If there is funding required, isn't the media already in the hands of the government despite claims to be separate

No commercials, newspapers are sold, e-media use fees.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Azazel

Ok who funds the "media" ? Do they charge for a newspaper or is it freely available. If they charge, are they expected to recoup costs? If there is funding required, isn't the media already in the hands of the government despite claims to be separate

No commercials, newspapers are sold, e-media use fees.

So no continuing government funding?? If no, what if revenues doen't meet costs?

[Az]

guess the key, to me, is how this would shake out for the workers, Az, in terms of what they get for a job, where, etc.

The government, via lots of elected officials, will presumably decide what to make, how, how much, etc. What is the method by which it gets people to work to make the things it decides to make? Forgive me if this has been asked & answered earlier... too many threads, I think Will there be a wage differential, some other form of benifit/incentive, or will it be more authoritarian than that?

In short, how will labor be allocated?

Labor differential, also, it's possible to be fired, and be unemployed. However, that wouldn't mean that your kids would have problems going to school, or problems with medicine, because that would be free. Welfare would be rather minimal, btw.

If you want to quit, btw, it's possible, too. That's why there are somewhat more students studying than job positions available. To have a pool of professionals (That would have their skills degraded, due to not using them for a lot of time, of course, but as I've said, that's already a problem, anyway ) . They'll find jobs in positions adjacent to the positions that they were training for. That's the case for most of the students in many fields today, btw, so it's still better.

[Az]

So no continuing government funding?? If no, what if revenues doen't meet costs?

they might cut wages, or something.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Azazel

So no continuing government funding?? If no, what if revenues doen't meet costs?

they might cut wages, or something.

Your vision is sounding like the free market except you have government owning things. Minimal welfare, unemployment, cutting wages-- Are you SURE you are not a capitalist?

[Arrian]

I'm guessing the salary structure would be different, however, with much less of a gap between the ditchdigger and the CEO.

-Arrian

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Flubber
Ok who funds the "media" ? Do they charge for a newspaper or is it freely available. If they charge, are they expected to recoup costs? If there is funding required, isn't the media already in the hands of the government despite claims to be separate

And only one? That puts IMMENSE power in one body with no supervision by the people at all - and if there is governmental oversight, hell, that's even WORSE.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Azazel

Ok who funds the "media" ? Do they charge for a newspaper or is it freely available. If they charge, are they expected to recoup costs? If there is funding required, isn't the media already in the hands of the government despite claims to be separate

No commercials, newspapers are sold, e-media use fees.

Newspapers would cost a LOT more then.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Azazel

So no continuing government funding?? If no, what if revenues doen't meet costs?

they might cut wages, or something.

Or a recession?