com/cap/com debate - laboring under delusions

[Kuciwalker]

No. Why? Why does the value society holds of my labor have anything to do with a deal made between me and another individual? I should not be deprived of my property (including my labor) without my consent; the mechanism I described will prevent me from trading my property for something I think has lesser value.

(Obviously I don't hold this right as absolute, else taxes would be impossible.)

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
The value of an object (which may be an intangible thing, like a patent or a music file) is a function of the object and the person. The value of some object X to person Y is val(X,Y). We normally represent this as equal to val($x,Y), where x is the maximum dollar value Y would pay for X and the minimum dollar value for which Y would sell X. If Y is selling X to Z, the price will be val(X,Y) < price < val(X,Z), by definition.

Let me ask you this. When you say 'we normally' who do you mean? Is this a recognized theory?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
No. Why? Why does the value society holds of my labor have anything to do with a deal made between me and another individual? I should not be deprived of my property (including my labor) without my consent; the mechanism I described will prevent me from trading my property for something I think has lesser value.

(Obviously I don't hold this right as absolute, else taxes would be impossible.)

If you don't recieve compensation for your work someone else does.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Let me ask you this. When you say 'we normally' who do you mean? Is this a recognized theory?

I meant that people usually express the value of something in terms of the number of dollars that, to them, has an equivalent value. It's not relevent to my point.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Kidicious
If you don't recieve compensation for your work someone else does.

Or no one, and I simply give it as a gift

However, I didn't say I should receive compensation. I objected to using a completely arbitrary standard to determine what compensation I should receive.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


I meant that people usually express the value of something in terms of the number of dollars that, to them, has an equivalent value. It's not relevent to my point.

Ok, but do you see how that is wrong.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Ok, but do you see how that is wrong.

Uh, it's not. The vast majority of people think of something's value in terms of the number of dollars that holds equivalent value. That's the entire point of having a currency.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


Or no one, and I simply give it as a gift

However, I didn't say I should receive compensation. I objected to using a completely arbitrary standard to determine what compensation I should receive.

A social benefit is just that. A benefit to society. It might be an individual benefit, or a benefit to society at large, but somewhere there is a social cost. In this case we are talking about your work. If the individual cost of the thing that you traded is smaller than the social benefit then maybe you have given a gift, but however, if you have to make the trade it's no gift now is it. So yes, that's why we are talking about social benefit of our individual work.

[Kuciwalker]

WTF?

Society isn't involved. It has nothing to do with them. It's between me and the person with whom I'm trading.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
WTF?

Society isn't involved. It has nothing to do with them. It's between me and the person with whom I'm trading.

I just told you how society is involved. Why do you say society isn't involved? The rest of the members of society have a stake in the trade too.

[Kuciwalker]

How so?

It's my stuff, and his stuff. Why does anyone else get to determine what goes on between consenting adults?

[Az]

Well, sorry to barge in on the discussion, but that's a load of crap. any transaction has an influence on all of society.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Azazel
Well, sorry to barge in on the discussion, but that's a load of crap. any transaction has an influence on all of society.

Nope. And it's a load of crap that somehow, how much I'm compensated for my labor should NOT be something I'm allowed to have a say in.

[Kuciwalker]

Anyway, to repeat:

Originally posted by Kidicious
We are. You should be compensated for the social value of your labor. Should you not?

No.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
It's my stuff, and his stuff. Why does anyone else get to determine what goes on between consenting adults?

Because the trade affects other people. If you are allowed to take advantage of your workers' poor financial conditions it affects me as a worker, even though I don't work for you.