Michael Crichton picks a fight with environmentalists

[Lawrence of Arabia]

I would be wary of thinking that's a net zero effect. If the ice sheets are getting larger, that means more water is being displaced in the ocean, pushing sea levels up. At the same time, shrinking ice sheets mean that glaciers are moving into the sea faster, which also raises the sea level. What would make it a net zero is if snow is falling on Antarctica at a greater rate then previously.

more water isnt being displacd - more water is being tied up. sea level drops if any. but since its melting on the other side, sea level remains the same.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
Just take a road trip down the 405 or the 710 and you will see plenty of heavy industry.

Out of your league son.

Sorry.

I think you mistake a warehouse with heavy industry. s'OK though, a lot of people don't have a clue.

Where does GE manufacture those engines that power those Boeing jets, Ted?

California?

I don't think so.

How much steel is made in California? How many major ship yards? How many motor engines?

Can you name a single heavy industry centred in California? What is it?

[Ted Striker]

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[notyoueither]

Here's a hint, Ted. Oil. What happens to oil before we can use it? That's heavy industry. Slapping electronic components together to make a computer is not.

Even then, California is in the process of shutting down its refinery capacity.

http://www.energy.ca.gov/oil/refineries.html

Permitting Issues. It is unlikely that new refineries will be built in California. In fact, from 1985 to 1995, 10 California refineries closed, resulting in a 20 percent reduction in refining capacity. Further refinery closures are expected for small refineries with capacities of less than 50,000 barrels per day. The cost of complying with environmental regulations and low product prices will continue to make it difficult to continue operating older, less efficient refineries.

To comply with federal and state regulations, California refiners invested approximately $5.8 billion to upgrade their facilities to produce cleaner fuels, including reformulated gasoline and low-sulfur diesel fuel. These upgrades received permits since low-sulfur diesel fuel regulations went into effect in 1993. Requirements to produce federal reformulated gasoline took effect at the beginning of 1995, and more stringent state requirements for CARB reformulated gasoline went into effect statewide on April 1, 1996.

Do you think China is being as emissions consious as California? If they were, they would be doing worse than shutting down coal plants, they would not be allowing oil to replace it.

Short answer, you can't grow a developing economy the way you can grow the economy of Califonia, which is one of the most advanced on the planet. The dirty jobs have to get done by someone before the people of California can get the products of heavy industry to turn into finished products for people to buy.Only a fool would look to California and say that everyone should be able to do the same thing. It simply isn't true. The oil, the fertilizer, the engines, the steel, the chemicals, and so on all have to come from somewhere for a national economy to work.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
There are no steel plants, but oil refining and chemical refining in general are HUGE. In addition there is a gigantic manufacturing base. If you can name any major manufacturer, including every company in Japan, they are here, and they are making things. On top of THAT, we have many more cars and big trucks on the road, and many more container ships in the harbor than ever before. Those are all potentially polluting things happening but due to regulations, air quality has drastically improved.

You are falsley under the assumption that heavy industry must mean steel and that's it.

Just like your false assumption that the Chinese's proven pollution decrease was soley due to a switch from coal, when that wasn't even close. (By the way, you never did provide any evidence about your coal theory, but that's okay, I know you are too lazy or not informed enough to provide ANY evidence about much of anything really).

There is no doubt that this is a big industrial city and it's clearer to me that you really have no idea what you are talking about. Sorry.

If you had firsthand knowledge then I might actually take you seriously.

CA is shutting down refineries. China is opening them up. Do you have any idea about what you are talking about?

[Ted Striker]

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[Ted Striker]

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[notyoueither]

Wow. You can see it from your window, therefore it must be true all over. Good argument, ted.

Incidently, New Jersy has more workers in the chemical industry than CA has.

How much of your economy is in heavy industry again?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
You are so ignoring the obvious dude. They set about emissions MANDATES, from the government, and they met them or at least moved in the right direction, and that resulted in REAL pollution decreases as noted by the multiple statistics that I have owned you with but you are trying to save face with.

Once more, for old times sake, and maybe you'll read it if it is kept very simple.

By 2025 China, already the world's second biggest emitter of CO2, is expected to emit more carbon dioxide than the current combined total of the United States, Japan and Canada.

yes, it sure sounds like they are decreasing. Yup.

[Ted Striker]

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[notyoueither]

China... more carbon dioxide than the current combined total of the United States, Japan and Canada.

Focus on that, Ted. Maybe you'll get the picture.

[Ted Striker]

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[notyoueither]

Yes, Ted. More industry, less polluition. Hey, you seem to be just about ready to buy into Marx. Only a Marxist, or a Jesuit, could claim that the sky is green and the grass is blue and say it with a straight face. Well, OK, maybe a few other peoiple can do it too, I'm just trying to figure where you fall.

But you bet! China can perform a miracle of massive industrial growth AND less pollution overall. Yesiree, Bob!

NOT.

[Ted Striker]

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[Ted Striker]

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