Discourse and Discussion - Cap/Com

[Arrian]

It's been fun today, fellas. Seeya tomorrow.

The trash analogy isn't really that good a fit. Many companies who disposed of their trash "properly" (as in it was thought to be acceptable at the time) in landfills have discovered to their chagrin that those landfills don't contain waste as well as they were supposed to.

Intentional, knowing polluters *do* tend to get nailed.

But there is more to the issue than that...

-Arrian

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Arrian


If we wish to encourage behavior without going so far as to simply outlaw that which we don't like (in this case, gas guzzlers), yes.

-Arrian

Ok. I also don't eat babies. Pay me for that now. Assuming you don't want me to eat your baby of course.

[Odin]

You crazy Bolsheviks try to overthrow the old order while we Democratic Socialists eat the old order from the inside out.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Flubber
I agree that pollution is at unacceptable levels and the United States is having trouble with its economy . Canada's economy is doing ok. I just reject that there is NECESSARILY a direct correlation between pollution and economic growth. Obviously there has been such a linkage as companies industrialized and we therefore expect even more pollution from India China etc as they modernize .. .But imagine if I invented a cheap $100 doohickey that could cut all car emissions by half. The result might be that Alberta pollution stayed the same but our economy grew from selling 20 million units to California. In California, pollution drops sharply even though the economy may be skyrocketing.

NOT all industries are major polluters and the US could curb pollution by major amounts if the consumers would end their love affairs with the big SUVs.

Oh Christ. Do you not understand that we get more polution with more consumption. Therefore anti-polution is related to economic growth. Where the hell do you get your ideas?

[chequita guevara]

Relax. It's better for your blood pressure.

At the risk of seeming ridiculous, let me say that the true revolutionary is guided by a great feeling of love. It is impossible to think of a genuine revolutionary lacking this quality.

[Kidlicious]

I think a 'genuine' revolution has to sweep away he old order completely, and in order to do that you need more than love, because they are going to come after you.

[chequita guevara]

The reason we fight for a better world isn't just for mere animal reasons of survival, though that is of great importance. It is also to build a world in which we are no longer distorted and charactures. We want to build a world which liberates the oppressors just as much as the oppressed.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Oh Christ.

Interesting exclaimation. I would have figured you for an atheist.

Originally posted by Kidicious


. Do you not understand that we get more polution with more consumption.

Yes and NO. Increased consumption of bicycles and mass transit may result in a minor pollution increase ( manufacturing more bicycles-- I assume no new buses required yet) but this would be more than offset by the pollution decrease from people driving less.

At an individual level there are many things that people can do to decrease pollution which do not negatively impact economic growth. In fact people recycling has created a recycling industry which creates profit and REDUCES pollution

Originally posted by Kidicious


\ Therefore anti-polution is related to economic growth. Where the hell do you get your ideas?

From reality. Unfortunately, you do not see that absolutes rarely apply. Thats why I reject your notion that growth necessarily means more pollution. It usually does but the corerelation can be broken

[Velociryx]

Even if you have to drag the "oppressed" kicking and screaming to the altar of the revolution, eh? (or beat them over the head in order to inform them of their oppressed state?)

Haven't had much chance to be online this week...looks like I got a lot of catching up to do.

-=Vel=-

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Ok. I also don't eat babies. Pay me for that now. Assuming you don't want me to eat your baby of course.

I believe we outlawed eating babies .

Oh and attempting to eat my son ( or harm him in any way) would invoke one of the very few situations where I would willingly take another person's life

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kidicious
I think a 'genuine' revolution has to sweep away he old order completely, and in order to do that you need more than love, because they are going to come after you.

See .. . its comments like this one that gets Vel all riled up and talking about re-education camps and executions.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Even if you have to drag the "oppressed" kicking and screaming to the altar of the revolution, eh?

Why do you assume I'm a violent man?

[Flubber]

Oh and the free market and democracy is actually starting to slowly ( perhaps too slowly) to take steps on social responsibility issues. There are funds out there that invest only in "green" companies and consumers that buy the "greener" products. If enough people cared enough about the issue, stricter environmental standards would be applied PLUS more companies would see the profit in being "green". Its a slow slow process.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Flubber


I believe we outlawed eating babies .

Oh and attempting to eat my son ( or harm him in any way) would invoke one of the very few situations where I would willingly take another person's life

I wasn't going to eat your baby anyway, but since you are paying people NOT to do things, I want my share.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Flubber



See .. . its comments like this one that gets Vel all riled up and talking about re-education camps and executions.

You don't care about that. You only care about losing your status.