Recommend me a car...again.

[Asher]

American cars have far less in the way of quality and reliability requirements compared to the good Japanese vendors (Toyota, Honda, Mazda, Nissan).

My brother works for various auto-part engineering firms (he's a mechanical engineer). These firms have both people like GM and Toyota as customers. For simple things like the air vents on the new Pontiac G6 (which he worked on last year), GM only requires a "cycle" of 5,000 times to work without change in resistence or failure, while Toyota's cycle requirement for the '06 Camry was 60,000 (no exaggeration).

A "cycle" in this case was the opening/closing of the air vents.

[Az]

I wouldn't say Korean cars are crap. They're pretty good value for money.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Azazel
I wouldn't say Korean cars are crap. They're pretty good value for money.

They're still crap for reliability.

Though they are improving quite quickly (Hyundai in particular).

[Az]

Hyundai

I had them in mind.

[Japher]

I can't believe they named a car Kia though. I still think KIA, which isn't a good thing.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

get a salvaged car. you can get a great deals on those.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Asher
It's not an irrational fear, American and Korean cars are crap.

That said, so are British cars.

Is that why GM scores higher then every automaker except for Toyota and Honda?

The truth is American cars are very well put together and they last longer then most of the competetion.

[Arrian]

Which scores are those, exactly?

I remember laughing at the TV the other day... some car company was blathering about how it was rated tops in "initial quality" as if that proved they were good cars! Somebody probably fell for that, too. The knock on American cars is that they tend to age poorly.

-Arrian

[Asher]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Is that why GM scores higher then every automaker except for Toyota and Honda?

The truth is American cars are very well put together and they last longer then most of the competetion.

American cars rank pretty well in initial quality, but their reliabilty after 5 years tanks rapidly (conveniently around when the warranty expires).

All of their quality measurements (like the 5,000-cycle airvents) are based on usabilility studies and projections. They figure by the time the 5,000-cycle limit is reached, the car is out of warranty so not only is failure okay, it's perhaps desirable -- they make money off the GM Goodwrench Service and Parts, afterall.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

at least meinke gives you free breaks after your first pair.

[MrFun]

There is a 1999 Chevrolet Lumina that only has 60,000 miles on it.


What does anyone think about getting a Chevy Lumina?

[Asher]

Reviewed by: MikeS
Year: 1996
Model: Lumina LS
Price Paid: $18500 at Kaye Chev

Summary:
Big car for not too much money. Overall pretty comfortable. Car handles very well. Original tires went 50,000 miles, now have wider Michelins. Brakes need a lot of pressure to stop the car fast. Some minor interior quality problems - the driver visor clip pulled out of the roof, and now I just leave it loose, doesn't even vibrate. Power mirror control also is loose on door - heavy-handed wife helped it along, I think. Turning radius is really large, can't make u-turns on small streets. Fan motor is noisy at two highest settings, and when you put the heat up high, you get a lot less air blowing out of vents than when temp. is lower. Otherwise, the interior is fine, and dealer took good care of me for the warranty period. Unfortunately, extended warranty was a good investment. Saved money on repairs because of it. First five years the car was fine, really not many problems at all. But after eight years, lots of problems. I have been through 3 steering racks, a heater core, 2 intake manifolds, recently the turn signal had to be replaced, mechanic had to disable the gas/octane sensor as car wouldn't accelerate past twenty without severe hesitation, and also had a big problem with bad gas. Apparently a no-name station had lots of water in their gas (can't prove it though), and it rusted out the fuel injectors, other parts got damaged, and had to get a new catalytic converter, too. $ 3,000 for all that, and I wonder if other cars would have sustained that much damage. Otherwise, engine and transmission are running good. Plan on getting rid of it soon, as too many things are starting to wear out.

Strengths:
Big, comfortable car, good handling with better tires.

Weaknesses:
Too many repairs in the last few years, it is getting too costly to keep for the future. I'm looking as small SUV's now, will only buy a Honda or Toyota, as my other car, a 2001 Caravan has also had a lot of problems, all within the first 3 years of ownership.

Reviewed by: TimB
Year: 1997
Model: Lumina
Price Paid: $20000 at Henderson Chevrolet

Summary:
Enjoyed the car but many problems.

Weaknesses:
Replaced turn signals switch twice, intake gasket at 74000, AC compressor at 80000 miles and now they say the engine at 84000 due to coolent eating away at the heads and other aluminum parts.

Reviewed by: Bryan33, from Toronto
Year: 1999
Model: Lumina
Price Paid: $0 at 0

Summary:
I am a typical person who likes the reliability and the design of Japanese cars. Previously owning a 1997 Honda Accord (V6 engine), I had crashed it and bought myself a brand new 1999 Lumina for its space. The quality of the Lumina is substantially lower than that of the Accord. Such as the battery and cup holder placement is very poor. Who puts a cup holder in front of the stereo controls and a battery underneath the windshield fluid container? The interior is poorly done as well. The side door moldings and the door itself have gone loose and the plastic fixture that holds the sun-visor in place snapped off from the ceiling. The most embarrassing thing is the decals/markings on the signal turner have faded away! I can now barely read anything on it such as the cruise control settings. Engine problems have occurred too at 55,000KM only! A common problem with Luminas is the leakage of engine coolant fluent caused by a broken gasket. That was an $800 CAD job. There is supposedly a hidden warranty for this flaw. During winter or an extremely hot day, the doors and trunk stick making it difficult to open. The front brake pads wear out quickly too making changes more often then average cars. The radio is another disappointing thing; the reception is poor as the antenna closely resembles a clothes hanger stuck on the car. I am disappointed that my Lumina (base model) only came with rear drum breaks as compared to all disc brakes on the Accord (higher models). Though this may seem like a long list of problems, they have actually occurred over the course of only 3 1/2 years which in my opinion is extremely poor reliability. The engine technology (OHV - Over Head Valve) is old compared to the newer more efficient DOCH and SOCH engines found in German /Japanese cars. The engine design/concept hasn't changed in 10 years and can still be found on newer cars such as the Impala. On a positive note, these engines produce a lot of torque at low RPMS compared to Japanese cars, which make them perfect for hauling things such as a trailer. They are considerably good for long trips, but the seats get uncomfortable after several hours of use. The 160hp on the base and LS edition is adequate, but is slow when going from 0 to 60mph (100km/h). I found that the 160hp Luminas can do 0-60mph in 9.2 seconds with an automatic transmission (I am not 100% sure about the credibility of that info - was found on a website). That is considerably slow compared to the average family car of 8 seconds (a V6 Oldsmobile Alero). When you stomp on the gas, the car SOMETIMES downshifts (goes to a lower gear)for more power, but when it doesn't I find the vehicle very slow. If your considering this car, I would strongly recommend upgrading the warranty package to at least 5 years/80,000km from the dealer such as I did. I found it came in handy a lot! Or if you do not want to bother with the hassle of returning your Lumina for service, you would be pleased to drive an Accord at around the same price(even a four-cylinder edition!). All in all, I would not recommend this car for the typical family who enjoys reliability and comfort whereas the power enthusiasts may enjoy the beefy 3.8 liter edition to spank those small Japanese cars on the roads. It is your choice. Choose wisely!

Weaknesses:
-Poorly designed inside and out
-cupholders
-battery placement
-interior fittings
-Engine flaw
-Trunk hinges interfare with cargo space
-Only front disc breaks on base models
-Cheap looking mirrors on pull-out sun visors
-Breaks need replacement quite often
-Old Engine technology

Notice how many repairs the American cars start needing after the warranty is gone.

[MrFun]

So we should all stay away from Chevy Luminas?

[Asher]

Chevy in general.

[Arrian]

Used ones for sure.

This is why Hondas and Toyotas hold their value better - they're actually still worth something after the first few years.

-Arrian