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Why do Americans have an irrational fear of international organizations?

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  • Why do Americans have an irrational fear of international organizations?

    I came to this question by means of studying the International Criminal Court this semester in my International Human Rights class. It really is astonishing how much hate and vitrol has been levied by the Bush Administration and ordinary Americans against a court which will have absolutely no effect on Americans, whether they be soldiers or civilians.

    The ICC, for example, can only prosecute if the home country is unwilling or unable to investigate charges. Unwilling means a sham investigation in order to avoid ICC jurisdiction. If a country does any competent investigation (which the US has done for any complaint against its armed forces) the ICC can't touch it. Unable means a complete breakdown in the legal system. If the US is faced with that, it has bigger problems than the ICC having jurisdiction.

    However, all you heard were complaints about how US servicemen would be subject to frivolous suits and the court may have a vendetta against the US, etc, etc. Any frivilous suit would be thrown out by the prosecutor or the Court itself. There is no way that it can be spun that the US conducts sham investigations (commies spinning conspiracy theories don't count) or that there is a complete breakdown in the legal system. But the Bush Administration is trying all that it can to break the ICC by waging full fledged attack against it.

    Other threads have Americans expressing doubts on the impartiality of the Red Cross. The RED CROSS, for God's sake!

    And of course, there is the old stereotype of American militia men fearing UN black helicopters coming and taking their freedoms away. Unfortunetly I think that's becoming less of a stereotype and more of reality.

    What is it about Americans that has made them so damned paranoid? Is it the culture of fear which has grown up after 9/11? But part of this irrational hatred existed before then. I just can't understand it.
    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

  • #2
    Do you not know anything about the ICRC? It's not the same as the humanitarian wing of the Red Cross...
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    • #3
      EDIT: never mind
      Last edited by MrFun; December 1, 2004, 10:49.
      A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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      • #4
        I'd suggest you save the "idiot" talk for someone else, Funsie...
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        ASHER FOR CEO!!
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        • #5
          The "humanitarian wing" is the major part of the International Committee of the Red Cross. They are one and the same.
          “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
          - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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          • #6
            Originally posted by MrFun



            He does know what the ICRC is. He just got done describing to you what it is, you idiot.
            He described the ICC. The ICRC is the International Committee of the Red Cross.

            And I don't know why Americans are so paranoid. It is worrying though.
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            • #7
              Who defines "sham investigation"? Can you provide a 100% guarantee that the ICC wont decide to prosecute an american? If you cant do that (and even if you can), why should the USA as a country abrogate the rights of american citizens by passing that power to the ICC. The USA is not the only western country with doubts about jumping on the panacea of a 'global or regional government' mentality.
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              • #8
                Paranoia, brought on by the vitiriol directed at us from much of the world. And, as we saw in the recent election, who cares about facts?

                -Arrian
                grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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                • #9
                  Because as Imran said:

                  "The ICC, for example, can only prosecute if the home country is unwilling or unable to investigate charges."

                  So the US just has to investigate charges - not prosecute - and the ICC can't prosecute.
                  Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
                  Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
                  We've got both kinds

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                  • #10
                    Jesus, do any of these links on the ICRC homepage work?
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                    • #11
                      Can you provide a 100% guarantee that the ICC wont decide to prosecute an american?


                      Yes. There is no way in Hell, under the current governmental structure of the US, that an American will be prosecuted by the ICC. None, zip, nada, zero.

                      why should the USA as a country abrogate the rights of american citizens by passing that power to the ICC


                      Engaging in international crimes of genocide (for example) seem naturally to lend themselves to international jurisdiction. The US isn't abrogating rights, because the country the crimes are committed in can prosecute the American.

                      And it isn't just opting out. That's fine. What isn't is the attack on the ICC. Preventing approval of Bosnia peacekeeping unless the ICC made a special (discriminatory) rule saying Americans wouldn't be prosecuted. Making countries sign agreements saying they wouldn't turn over Americans or suffer sanctions (South Africa, for example, is under sanctions for refusing to sign such a crappy thing).

                      All for what? Americans will not be prosecuted! During the Rome conference we made sure of that.
                      “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                      - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                      • #12
                        As Imran has pointed out a couple of times, if United States can carry out legitimate investigations, what is the problem?
                        A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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                        • #13
                          I've had this conversation before but aside from the uselessness of declaring war on the ICC which I agree with you on, I see no compelling reason for the US to actually support the ICC by ratifying the Rome Statute.
                          I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
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                          • #14
                            I see no compelling reason for the US to actually support the ICC by ratifying the Rome Statute.


                            Which is fine, but activelly working to destroy it is something that isn't ok. Just saying we aren't going to ratify it, like we did with Kyoto would have been ok and wouldn't have earned the ire of anyone.

                            The best reason for signing onto the ICC is to get those that violate international law in 3rd world countries without the US having to prosecute and use up our court time. Though it depends if we really care about locking up those that violate international law in those countries (we may not).
                            “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                            - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                            • #15
                              Typically, we have good reason to mistrust international organizations. Due to widespread Anti-Americanism, along with the desire of many to "bring the US down a peg" throughout the world, there is good reason to think we might not be treated fairly in these organizations
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