Austrians say: either Croatia is in or we block Turkey

[Ted Striker]

It sounds to me like the Euros are finding Turkey to be a convenient scapegoat that they can use to help leverage whatever issue of the week they are looking to pressure.

[Ancyrean]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
It sounds to me like the Euros are finding Turkey to be a convenient scapegoat that they can use to help leverage whatever issue of the week they are looking to pressure.

[Atahualpa]

Originally posted by Wernazuma III


What I guess my fellow countryman wants to say is that as Austrians we still are absolutely unaware of any such Austrian policy. And I read several newspapers and all the major national news.
ata: What do you think how Gusi sleeps tonight?

I don't know and I don't really want to know. The political landscape here sucks so much. I hate black-blue and their stupid conservative policies that will get us nowhere but in hell's kitchen. OTOH I see germany and red-green doing even worse.
The good thing is that Gusenbauer is not Schröder.

[axi]

Turkey's intransigence was so taken for granted by the Greek Cypriots that they signed on/supported all UN proposals (all of which was on a partnership basis) without worry. The world turned upside down when Turkey finally reversed its course.

Oh come on, the UN proposal was totally skewed in favor of Turkey and all the United States and EU pressure fell on the Greek Cypriot side to accept it nevertheless. Annan did not serve his purpose correctly because he failed to bring the two sides into an agreement and then he arbitrarily made a draft that was predestined to fail. Had he balanced the plan more, there would be good chances for it to pass both referendums with a 55-45 majority.

The main problem of the plan was not the give or take of land or money or population, but the fact that it was unworkable and led to the eventual division into two separate states and also to the perpetuation of Cyprus's dependence on outside forces, not just Greece and Turkey, but chiefly the US and UK. These 2 want to secure Cyprus as a base of operations in the Middle East and they want Cyprus to be as dependent as possible.

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by Atahualpa

The good thing is that Gusenbauer is not Schröder.

word.

[Heresson]

After all this Haiddering, bad feelings towards Slovenia and Croatia, I am pretty suprised

[kronic]

Originally posted by Atahualpa
The good thing is that Gusenbauer is not Schröder.

He's even worse.

I think Turkey won't become a member anyway. The European governments should be honest to the Turks. We wouldn't need such stupid threads then.

----

@VetLegion
The amount is more like 1,500 billion €. However, those numbers are not accurate, since they do not include the money that was practitcally transfered back to the West. Oh and compare East Germany now with the GDR 15 years ago, und you will see, what the money was spent on.

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by Heresson
After all this Haiddering, bad feelings towards Slovenia and Croatia, I am pretty suprised

Haiddering?
bad feelings towards Slovenia?
bad feelings towards Croatia?

[Heresson]

The ex-leader of Carinthia...
And He used to play on anti-Slovenian feeling ammongst Carinthians...
Ammongst EU members, Austrians were the least pleased with Polish membership. Or the French were worse.
And I remember some affair between Austria and Czech Republic some time ago due to Czech nuclear plant

[kronic]

Yeah, nobody wants a crappy Russian nuclear pant that has defects all the time at his border.

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by Heresson
The ex-leader of Carinthia...
And He used to play on anti-Slovenian feeling ammongst Carinthians...
Ammongst EU members, Austrians were the least pleased with Polish membership. Or the French were worse.
And I remember some affair between Austria and Czech Republic some time ago due to Czech nuclear plant

1. Carinthia=!Austria and lamentably Haider is still Carinthian leader.
Carinthia is a stinking biotope of the most reactionary, most German-nationalist elements in Austria. It's where they all go. Compared to other Austrian regions, Carinthia felt most German and had most Nazi members (and activists). One of the worst was Odilo Globotschnigg, figure the tragic irony and stupidity of the name.
Carinthian-Slovenian relationship is problematic since 1919, when Yugoslavian troops and Austrian partisans fought a dirty Guerilla war there (I can't go into detail here). Anyway, the rest of Austria is very favorable towards Slovenia, especially Styria, the other bordering province, where I live.

I was not pleased with Polish membership either, but not out of general xenophoby but because of that backwards medieval kind of Catholicism that rules the country.

Czech Republic - well, you say it yourself, it was over a nuclear power plant. Austria has an extremely strong anti-nuclear movement ranging from the political left to the right. Austria itself decided not to have them and is especially concerned about the security of bordering plants and felt the Czech officials didn't cooperate. The other issue with the Czechs are the Benes-decrees, and actually I believe the Austrian side was not really too picky on this issue, it had to be addressed.

[Ancyrean]

Originally posted by axi
Oh come on, the UN proposal was totally skewed in favor of Turkey and all the United States and EU pressure fell on the Greek Cypriot side to accept it nevertheless. Annan did not serve his purpose correctly because he failed to bring the two sides into an agreement and then he arbitrarily made a draft that was predestined to fail. Had he balanced the plan more, there would be good chances for it to pass both referendums with a 55-45 majority.

The main problem of the plan was not the give or take of land or money or population, but the fact that it was unworkable and led to the eventual division into two separate states and also to the perpetuation of Cyprus's dependence on outside forces, not just Greece and Turkey, but chiefly the US and UK.

On the contrary, the Annan Plan was not a dramatic departure from the previous plans in the 1980s and 1990s that the Greek Cypriot side endorsed and Turkey rejected.

Moreover, the Greek Cypriot government actively worked to prevent any torough explanation of the plan to the Greek Cypriot people. They even prevented the EU Commissioner for Enlargement to come on screen and commend the plan.

If you think the Plan was biased in favour of Turks, I can assure you that there was a very strong objection in Turkey to the plan too, on the basis that it was not fair enough, which the government worked a lot to overcome.

The primary reason the plan was deemed "unworkable" by Greek Cypriots was the Greek Cypriot inability to comprehend any arrangement based on equal partnership. Instead of the nice all-Greek, universally recognised (albeit divided) structure they now have, suddenly they had to catch up with the reality of a Cyprus united but one in which they will be only one of the partners in an equality based arrangement.

Besides, once in the EU, the chances of division and seperation are not realistic, at least given the regard of Turkish Cypriots' for Turkey

Or else the UN with its 40 years of experience in Cyprus affairs, as well as the EU and the US, who had all staked their prestige in their support for the plan, had some strange interest in preparing so terribly biased and "unworkable" plan and take pride in supporting it actively and loudly. The balanced nature of the plan was the most advertised and hailed quality of it. But to the Greek Cypriot mind, it would be balanced only if it gave the overall control to them.

These 2 want to secure Cyprus as a base of operations in the Middle East and they want Cyprus to be as dependent as possible.

I'd agree that our two countries have seen Cyprus as a staging ground in the dynamics of conflict between them, but I'd also say by the time of the Annan Plan Greece and Turkey agreed largely that a solution is better for the future improvement of their relationship.

[Ancyrean]

Originally posted by kronic
I think Turkey won't become a member anyway.

I don't mean this would apply to you but your thumbs-up after that sentence reminds me of how incredibly misinformed or shamefully prejudiced the general European public is about Turkey.

Originally posted by kronic
The European governments should be honest to the Turks. We wouldn't need such stupid threads then.

You mean, they should have. By all established European regulations, traditions, procedures and practice with regard to new memberships, Turkey earned the right to start negotiations with the EU. Even the EU Commission accepted that much.

It would now take an unprecedentedly embarrassing political decision to reject Turkey at the point it reached. Rejecting Turkey now would be nothing short of a grand act of hypocrisy and double standard, in light of where Turkey stands today.

[Ted Striker]

Turkey has turned into a convenient scapegoat for every Eurocom with an EU membership grudge.

OMFG my pants don't fit; import better pants or we aren't letting Turkey in!!!!!

[Ancyrean]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
Turkey has turned into a convenient scapegoat for every Eurocom with an EU membership grudge.

OMFG my pants don't fit; import better pants or we aren't letting Turkey in!!!!!

Ted Striker: