Are labor supply and freedom related?

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Flubber,

Nevermind.

Gosh.

That's the nicest thing you have said to me. its almost warm and cuddly .

[Velociryx]

There is one aspect of Kid’s beliefs that I’m on the same page with.

Yes. We all are beholden to each other. We all, as human beings, bear a responsibility to each other.

Where we differ is in the execution of that responsibility.

For example: I (and many others) would contend that my responsibility to my fellow humans does not extend so greatly that my own, individual needs must play second fiddle. In Kid’s state-mandated Utopia, however, this is what will occur. I will be held back from achieving my full potential, so as not to “have more” or gain an “unfair position” over those who are less motivated or skilled, because that’s just “not fair.”

Never mind that it is equally “not fair” that the state binds my hands and PREVENTS me from achieving my full potential. No…for the greater societal good, as dictated by those who run the State Machine, the “unfairness” I complain about is overlooked, because it is part of the system itself, just as corruption IN the system is looked at as “an abnormal case” and therefore, not part of the norm” even though we all have seen (numerous times) the level of corruption built into EXACTLY this type of highly centralized system.

It’s not my fault that I’m smarter than some. It’s not a crime to have a high IQ, or to have a talent that others do not posses…at least, it’s not a crime in society as we know it. But it IS a crime in Kid’s Utopia. Anything that makes us unequal is criminalized, and to be punished. If not punitively, then by means of economic enstranglement and pandering to the lowest common denominator in the name of some self-described “equality.”

Those who have a different vision of “equality” must be dealt with. Best case, re-education…worst case…I think we all know the implication.

And this is freedom?

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

Kid's belief system seems to place the responsibility for HIS personal well being with society as a whole, primarily, and with himself as an individual, secondarily.

If I am mistaken, then he will no doubt correct me.

My belief system places responsibility for my well being with myself primarily, with society at large providing a social safety net, in case my own abilities should fail me.

This makes intuitive sense to my brain, as the State cannot possibly know what lies in my own best interests better than I know myself. I am uniquely positioned to know these things and a State Mandate of my own best interest will be, by definition, vastly inferior to putting me in charge of my own destiny.

-=Vel=-

[Kidlicious]

Stop trying to bait me. It's not going to work.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Stop trying to bait me. It's not going to work.

why, pray tell is this baiting??

[Kidlicious]

[Velociryx]

I think it's "baiting" in the Kidaverse cos he has no viable comeback?

-=Vel=-

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Velociryx
It’s not my fault that I’m smarter than some. It’s not a crime to have a high IQ, or to have a talent that others do not posses…at least, it’s not a crime in society as we know it. But it IS a crime in Kid’s Utopia. Anything that makes us unequal is criminalized, and to be punished. If not punitively, then by means of economic enstranglement and pandering to the lowest common denominator in the name of some self-described “equality.”

Those who have a different vision of “equality” must be dealt with. Best case, re-education…worst case…I think we all know the implication.

And this is freedom?

-=Vel=-

There was an interesting debate that talked to the two "versions" of equality and liberty, but I'll be damned if I remember where or when.

The one position was that was espoused by the American founding fathers that spoke towards all men being born/created equal with the intention being that meant all men were given equal opportunity to succeed on their own merits.

The second position derived from the french revolution that spoke more to equality as making all men equal.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe


There was an interesting debate that talked to the two "versions" of equality and liberty, but I'll be damned if I remember where or when.

The one position was that was espoused by the American founding fathers that spoke towards all men being born/created equal with the intention being that meant all men were given equal opportunity to succeed on their own merits.

The second position derived from the french revolution that spoke more to equality as making all men equal.

Equality of opportunity-- this seems to be what most democracies strive for but we have the knowledge that opportunity is not equal since more affluent folks have more opportunity

Equality of condition-- thats the communist pipe dream


Of the two, I'll take opportunity. If I started behind the rich thats fine by me . .. All I want is the freedom to aspire to anything I want. The fact that some folks out there have more than me detracts not at all from my happiness and self-worth

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Flubber

Of the two, I'll take opportunity. If I started behind the rich thats fine by me . .. All I want is the freedom to aspire to anything I want. The fact that some folks out there have more than me detracts not at all from my happiness and self-worth

Therein lies the crux. Happiness is what YOU make of it and only YOU can allow yourself to be unhappy. Envy of others condition is simply a means to rationalize your own unhappiness.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe


Therein lies the crux. Happiness is what YOU make of it and only YOU can allow yourself to be unhappy. Envy of others condition is simply a means to rationalize your own unhappiness.

Not quite since others can make me unhappy--- For example expropriating my assets in the name of giving them to someone else. Telling me where and how much I have to work without any ability on my part to negotiate. As long as I have freedom to choose and to keep the fruits of my own labour, I would be somewhat happy

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Flubber



Not quite since others can make me unhappy--- For example expropriating my assets in the name of giving them to someone else. Telling me where and how much I have to work without any ability on my part to negotiate. As long as I have freedom to choose and to keep the fruits of my own labour, I would be somewhat happy

Of course but those are infringements on your equality of opportunity.

[Berzerker]

You can't just come out and call people lazy and expect them to tell you personal things. You guys are really stupid.

Kid, do you see what happens when you don't think logically? You end up indignant about a perceived insult and then immediately insult others.

This is not a communist/capitalist thread *******! I'm trying to tell you guys that I'm sick of this ****. It was fun for the first couple of them. Then of course it got very old. This was a regular thread that I started that had nothing to do with communism or morality.

Oh c'mon Kid all your political/economic threads are about why Kidocracy communism is great and capitalism sucks. And since freedom and morality (=rights) are so entangled you cannot discuss one without the other. I'm surprised at your disgust over debating the morality of ideologies, surely you don't think your ideology is immoral so why not be eager to defend it?

How can you follow a path when you don't have any ability to do so dumb ass?

I can follow a path created by a great man without achieving the greatness he found at the end. The person quoted merely said it was wise to at least follow the path they created even if you don't reach the end of the line, i.e., achieve their greatness.

Kid, you got out of hand and Kontiki chiming in should be a red flag to you.

[Kidlicious]

I don't even know Kontiki, and I don't know why he knows me, or why he thinks he does. I don't care what he thinks. I'm not trying to win any popularity contests. I'm not a communist to win debates. I'm a real ****in blood red commie. Not one of these pinkos that want to swap spit in the shower with you. You offend me, and I don't want to have any part of you.

[Velociryx]

Except insofar as you wanna take his stuff and force him to take care of you, eh?

-=Vel=-