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uuuh, saddam was a commie. at least he was at the beginning.
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"Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini -
Saddam was a dictatorial nationalist, whose ties to the West decidely put him in the non-Commieland.Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
uuuh, saddam was a commie. at least he was at the beginning.
He became very quickly an outright fascist."I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
"I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
"I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- DisComment
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Agreed. Saddam was a fascist.Originally posted by Spiffor
Saddam was a dictatorial nationalist, whose ties to the West decidely put him in the non-Commieland.
He became very quickly an outright fascist.
Which makes the unpopularity of the war in Europe troubling.http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=enComment
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nah, saddam was a communist, and so was his party."Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito MussoliniComment
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Yeah, the baath is definitely a communist partyOriginally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
nah, saddam was a communist, and so was his party.
"I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
"I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
"I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- DisComment
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yeah, actually they were."Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito MussoliniComment
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No, they're not. The closest Western analogy to the Ba'ath is fascism."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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Get a bigger avatar today!
Hey, Spiffor. Is Che right that the Iraqi Commies could get 20% of the vote? They could be more powerful than any other party in the new legislature.
No, they won't be. The Shia Islamist coaltion will definitely be the largest party in the Iraqi Parliament."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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Originally posted by Spiffor
Unlike Plato, I give no benefit of the doubt whatsoever to the Bushies, who have willingly manipulated intelligence IMO, in order to bolster their propaganda machine*French Duplicity.I'll admit the Bushies haven't willingly manipulated intelligence.
The "split" in the west came at the desire of the French Government. The French had lead the US to believe that they were on board. They had even sent a General to the US command to help co-ordinate planning and troop integration. The first inkling the US had of the French "moral" position against the war was when they saw DeVillipin on TV saying the French could not support an invasion. They politically stabbed the US in the back when they could have made things clearer earlier in the process before we were so committed to the position on the ground. Some allies! Talk about a power play? The French made a huge one to protect their corrupt money pipeline from Iraq and they did it at the expense of damaging a hugely important alliance. IMO, they have ended up the long term loosers. They could have been handed a piece of a reshaped ME (economically speaking) and will now have to scramble for everything they get there.
The reality is that as long as there is oil in the ME and as long as the world needs oil there will be power plays by all who are able in this area. Economic dominance demands it. The French are just as culpable in how the ME looks this very day as we are and it sickens me to see them spout of about a "moral high ground" when their pockets are lined with blood stained Iraqi money."I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003Comment
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A quarter = 25%. There were elections for something or other in Iraq recently, something very minor. The commies got 25%, the Shi'ites got 25% (meaning there's a lot of Shia support for the Commies), the Sunnies got about 25%, and the Alawi supports got about 25%. These are rough numbers. Actually, the Shia's got the most and the Commies came in second. The breakdown seems to be 75% against the current government, and they all want the U.S. out.Originally posted by Ned
Hey, Spiffor. Is Che right that the Iraqi Commies could get 20% of the vote? They could be more powerful than any other party in the new legislature.
I wonder how the Iraqi Commies feel about the US?
I'm sure they're grateful for the opportunity the American invasion provided them, but they want the U.S. out. I'm sure they also harbor grudges against the U.S. for supporting Saddam against them in the 1960s. Saddam was a paid thug of the CIA who killed at least 5,000 Iraqi communists in 1963. The Kurdish communists also likely have mixed feelings, as the U.S. protected them in the 90s, but shafted them in the 70s and 80s.Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...Comment
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No, not really. Saddam styled himself on Stalin, but he was definately not a communist in any sense of the word. Ramo is correct that his ideology was much closer to fascism than communism.Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
nah, saddam was a communist, and so was his party.
Ned, Europe didn't support Hussein. They opposed an unecessary war. That's two very different things.Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...Comment
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I completely disagree with your numbers, che.
The Sunnis are going to boycott the election, so probably won't get much more than 5%, if that. Among the Commies, the PUK is boycotting the election, so I'd put the upper limit on their support at 15-20% (and probably will be lower). Allawi wasn't anywhere as close to as popular as certain Shia Islamist politicians (i.e. Jafaari), even when the circumstances were better (before Fallujah), so I don't think INA will do that well. Frankly, I wouldn't be suprised if he fails to be elected to Parliament. The INC (Chalabi's Party) isn't likely to do any better. Turkmen, a Christian party, other minority parties are also boycotting.
Anyways, the Shia Islamists could easily take a majority of the seats, probably a super-majority of the seats. You also have some of the more radical Shia Islamists (albeit, not large numbers of them, at the moment) boycotting, so what we'll see is a situation where Da'wa and SCIRI get to dicatate absolutely everything.Last edited by Ramo; November 22, 2004, 12:12."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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Sorry, friends, but the Bush administration did lie. You can't redefine the word just because you don't like it:
They blatantly presented supposition and intelligence guess-work-- which the community knew might not be true -- as facts. This is lying and you can't get around that. Indeed, Plato, you have taken the position that they planned this campaign of lies out carefully in order to deceive the American and global public.lie Audio pronunciation of "lie" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (l)
n.
1. A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
2. Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.
I would also question, Plato, your position that Bush took an expedient route. They went to war in Iraq with too few troops and so little global support that it has caused chaos and animosity to run rampant throughout the region. The Iraqis that still support Bush largely do so only because of the vain hope things will turn around. The fact is that anyone familiar with rebuilding a country would tell you we simply didn't have enough troops there at the beginning, and we don't have enough now. A highly flawed attempt to change the Middle East is not expedient, it is foolish and dangerous.
We are increasing the numbers of terrorists that want to go after the U.S.A. and coupled with that, Bush is cleansing the Intelligence community of anyone that doesn't toe the party line -- which includes many highly effective and knowledgeable individuals. Terrorism up and Intelligence abilities down is not expedient unless you want more attacks on the United States.
Even if they were trying to be expedient, flawed plans in pursuit of expediency are not inherently expedient.
-Drachasor"If there's a child on the south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper -- that makes this country work." - Barack ObamaComment
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The numbers come from a recent election, so disagree all you like.Originally posted by Ramo
I completely disagree with your numbers, che.
I wonder why the PUK is boycotting.Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...Comment
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Recent election?
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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