Ditch Dixie

[Lawrence of Arabia]

http://slate.msn.com/id/102291/

whose with me?

[Dinner]

We can keep playing these little games or we can deal with the real reason the far left isn't playing well in the south. We need to dump the extremists pushing to ban nativity scenes in public parks and instead focus on the message of getting better health care for all Americans and better educations for their children. The truth is you can't do anything unless you win elections.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

(actually i think california should succeed by itself. who needs oregon? i mean really )

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Oerdin
We can keep playing these little games or we can deal with the real reason the far left isn't playing well in the south. We need to dump the extremists pushing to ban nativity scenes in public parks and instead focus on the message of getting better health care for all Americans and better educations for their children. The truth is you can't do anything unless you win elections.

You know, you say this in every thread, and I think you need to be called on this bullsh!t.

40 years ago, the GOP ran Barry Goldwater for president and got trounced in one of the worst defeats in US history (the popular vote was more lopsided that either Nixon-McGovern or Reagan-Mondale, iirc). Triumphant liberals proudly claimed that America just wasn't that right-wing, that Republicans were extremists, that the liberal consensus was here to stay and the GOP needed to accommodate it.

16 years later, Ronald Reagan was elected president. 8 years after that, Goldwater pronounced Reagan too conservative for his tastes.

16 years after [i[that[/i], we have a Republican president so conservative that he's capable of horrifying Reaganites (see my sig, for example).

Liberals don't have to moderate their "extremism," any more than the conservatives did. Instead, they need to imitate conservative tactics, and begin the hard work of moving from their ideologogy back from the margins to the center.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly


You know, you say this in every thread, and I think you need to be called on this bullsh!t.

40 years ago, the GOP ran Barry Goldwater for president and got trounced in one of the worst defeats in US history (the popular vote was more lopsided that either Nixon-McGovern or Reagan-Mondale, iirc). Triumphant liberals proudly claimed that America just wasn't that right-wing, that Republicans were extremists, that the liberal consensus was here to stay and the GOP needed to accommodate it.

16 years later, Ronald Reagan was elected president. 8 years after that, Goldwater pronounced Reagan too conservative for his tastes.

16 years after [i[that[/i], we have a Republican president so conservative that he's capable of horrifying Reaganites (see my sig, for example).

Liberals don't have to moderate their "extremism," any more than the conservatives did. Instead, they need to imitate conservative tactics, and begin the hard work of moving from their ideologogy back from the margins to the center.

Um, isn't Oerdin's point that the Dems need to begin the hard work of moving their ideology back from the margins to the center? I don't find your point clear as stated.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Sikander


Um, isn't Oerdin's point that the Dems need to begin the hard work of moving their ideology back from the margins to the center? I don't find your point clear as stated.

No, he thinks the Dems need to change ideology, not move it -- and he's wrong. The GOP didn't change their ideology -- if they did, Reagan would be an amusing footnote and we'd all fondly remember President Rockefeller. Instead they built coalitions that connected their formerly-marginal ideology to people beyond the narrow realm of the true believers. That's the tactic that liberals need to emulate. Don't abandon the ideology, and don't apologize for it; instead, do the hard work of showing people why it's right for them. Conservatives did this very, very well, and their example can be followed.

[DanS]

However, the GOP did change its ideology. Maybe Reagan didn't change his own, but the party is different ideologically than in Nixon's day, for instance.

[Velociryx]

Yes...it sure did!

Sadly, not for the better.



-=Vel=-

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
(actually i think california should succeed by itself. who needs oregon? i mean really )

"secede" -- not "succeed"

[DanS]

Oh, btw, the article is ridiculous. Some of the reddest of red states aren't part of Dixie. In fact, the reddest state had marriage norms dictated to it from the federal government. And those norms were religiously based!

Sadly, not for the better.

There are a lot of big issues around now that weren't around then. It's a different political landscape.

[Sprayber]

I'm starting to get embarrassed for some of the Dems here. I've seen 4 year olds take things better than some of ya'll have. I really really hope the Democratic party will listen to the people like Oerdin or Mr. Fun who seem to at least see the troubles in the Democratic party. I haven't been able to vote for a Democrat in years and before too long I may not be able to vote for a Republican.

[Az]

what the hell are "nativity scenes" and do the have something to do with having sex in the woods?

[Arrian]

I'm really torn between Oerdin & Rufus' arguements. Each make sense.

I guess the question for those who see it the way Rufus does is this: what conservative tactics are you talking about emulating?

-Arrian

[DinoDoc]

You hear echoes of Southern nationalism whenever Mississippi invokes "states' rights" to justify flying the Confederate flag over their capitols

We usually appeal to democratic ideals given the referendum we had on the matter. But why let facts get in the way of a good rant.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Arrian
I'm really torn between Oerdin & Rufus' arguements. Each make sense.

I guess the question for those who see it the way Rufus does is this: what conservative tactics are you talking about emulating?

-Arrian

I suppose it depends on what you want the Party to be like. What do you personally feel the party should be.