Tape showing US soldiers killing an unarmed and wounded Iraqi

[Cruddy]

Originally posted by MrFun


If killing unarmed enemies is not a big deal, then I suppose you don't think the beheadings of American and English civilians is a big deal, either?

Not such a big deal as ensuring our side's behaviour is above board.

We cannot prevent civilians being beheaded. But we can act to make sure that atrocities on both sides are recorded and punished.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by VJ
In war, people die.

Did this come as a surprise to you?

In peacetime, people get murdered; this shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. Do we infer that's too no big deal?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Patroklos


There is nothing wrong with killing unarmed enemies. Ever hear about the element of suprise? Killing unarmed prisoners (which by definition are no longer the enemy) is where things get shady.

I saw no prisoners in that video.

You're really having a hard time with this aren't you? It must be tough.

[Patroklos]

You're really having a hard time with this aren't you? It must be tough

Obviously not, since this is all you can say to refute a perfectly logical arguement

These men had previously been wounded, cared for by a previous Marine unit, and left to be picked up.

What do you call that?

I would call in mercy from a group of marines who did not have the time to take them prisoner, but made the time to at least make a suffering person a little more comfortable before they moved on.

Lets just say it is not common practice to take prisoners, then leave no one there to guard them and move on, and of course not mention this when you have radio communications with everyone.

However, what I find to be perfectly reasonable is that a body that is assumed dead lurches at you in an enviroment where Geneva Convention defunct civilian clothes clad insurgents routinely fake death and surrender, and you react like any rational human being.

You guys really are having a hard time with this.

EDIT: Used the same quote twice

[Ned]

Originally posted by Oerdin
He'll get charged and he was a grunt.

Bull. He'll be given the Silver Star and run as the Democrat presidential candidate in 30 years.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Patroklos


Obviously not, since this is all you can say to refute a perfectly logical arguement



I would call in mercy from a group of marines who did not have the time to take them prisoner, but made the time to at least make a suffering person a little more comfortable before they moved on.

Lets just say it is not common practice to take prisoners, then leave no one there to guard them and move on, and of course not mention this when you have radio communications with everyone.

However, what I find to be perfectly reasonable is that a body that is assumed dead lurches at you in an enviroment where Geneva Convention defunct civilian clothes clad insurgents routinely fake death and surrender, and you react like any rational human being.

You guys really are having a hard time with this.

Pattycakes, I thought the rules of conduct during combat is that if the enemy is unarmed, and is obviously not resisting, you cannot kill him since he has basically surrendured.

[Az]

OMFG AMERICA = NAZIS

Get the **** over it. The person who did it should be punished, or institutionalized if he's mental. HOWEVER I would like to see everyone posting like they have a candle in their pants if the "freedom fighters" did it. I would also like to point out that some outraged posters in this very thread support "freedom fighters" who do much worse things on a regular basis.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Azazel
OMFG AMERICA = NAZIS

Get the **** over it. The person who did it should be punished, or institutionalized if he's mental. HOWEVER I would like to see everyone posting like they have a candle in their pants if the "freedom fighters" did it. I would also like to point out that some outraged posters in this very thread support "freedom fighters" who do much worse things on a regular basis.

I'm glad I'm not caught with this kind of hypocrisy.

[Az]

MrFun

[MrFun]

Calling terrorists freedom fighters is as inane as someone during World War II calling SS troops freedom fighters.

[Last Conformist]

"Terrorist" and "freedom fighter" are still not mutually exclusive.

[Saint Marcus]

in WW2 terrorists were called Freedom Fighters.

[Niessuh]

The worse thing is not the boy murdering a wounded man. Buddies reaction is the worse thing: no reaction. No "What the **** are you doing!". Just keep on walking.
That says it all

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ned


Bull. He'll be given the Silver Star and run as the Democrat presidential candidate in 30 years.

[Arrian]

FALLUJA, Iraq (Reuters) - U.S. Marines rallied round a comrade under investigation for killing a wounded Iraqi during the offensive in Falluja, saying he was probably under combat stress in unpredictable, hair-trigger circumstances.


Marines interviewed on Tuesday said they didn't see the shooting as a scandal, rather the act of a comrade who faced intense pressure during the effort to quell the insurgency in the city.


"I can see why he would do it. He was probably running around being shot at for days on end in Falluja. There should be an investigation but they should look into the circumstances," said Lance Corporal Christopher Hanson.


"I would have shot the insurgent too. Two shots to the head," said Sergeant Nicholas Graham, 24, of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. "You can't trust these people. He should not be investigated. He did nothing wrong."


The military command launched an investigation after video footage showed a U.S. Marine shooting a wounded and unarmed man in a mosque in the city on Saturday. The man was one of five wounded and left in the mosque after Marines fought their way through the area.


A pool report by NBC correspondent Kevin Sites said the mosque had been used by insurgents to attack U.S. forces, who stormed it, killing 10 militants and wounding the five. Sites said the wounded had been left for others to pick up.


A second group of Marines entered the mosque on Saturday after reports it had been reoccupied. Footage from the embedded television crew showed the five still in the mosque, although several appeared to be close to death, Sites said.


He said a Marine noticed one prisoner was still breathing.


A Marine can be heard saying on the pool footage provided to Reuters Television: "He's f***ing faking he's dead."


"The Marine then raises his rifle and fires into the man's head," Sites said.


NBC said the Marine, who had reportedly been shot in the face himself the previous day, said immediately after the shooting: "Well, he's dead now."


THOROUGH PROBE PROMISED


The Marine commander in Falluja, Lieutenant General John Sattler, said his men followed the law of conflict and held themselves to a high standard of accountability.


"The facts of this case will be thoroughly pursued to make an informed decision and to protect the rights of all persons involved," he said.


Marines have repeatedly described the rebels they fought against in Falluja as ruthless fighters who didn't play by the rules. They say the investigation is politically motivated.


"It's all political. This Marine has been under attack for days. It has nothing to do with what he did," said Corporal Keith Hoy, 23.


Rights group Amnesty International said on Monday both sides in the Falluja fighting had broken the rules of war governing the protection of civilians and wounded combatants.


Gunnery Sergeant Christopher Garza, 30, favored an investigation but like other Marines said the Pentagon (news - web sites) should weigh its decision carefully.

"He should have captured him. Maybe the insurgent had some valuable information. There may have been mitigating circumstances. Maybe his two buddies died in Falluja," he said.

Sites said: "I have witnessed the Marines behaving as a disciplined and professional force throughout this offensive. In this particular case, it certainly was a confusing situation to say the least."

The U.S. military has been embarrassed by scandals in Iraq (news - web sites), most prominently the Abu Ghraib affair in which at least eight U.S. soldiers have been tried or face courts-martial over the abuse of prisoners at the jail outside Baghdad.

There have also been several cases in which soldiers have been charged with wrongfully killing Iraqis during operations.

The parts I find interesting:

1) The soldier who confidently asserted he did nothing wrong. Nick of Philly, dude, you worry me. The others said investigate, but consider the circumstances (natural for a soldier to say, I feel).

2) The Marines went into to Mosque "after reports that it had been reoccupied." That has to be considered a mitigating factor.

-Arrian