Tape showing US soldiers killing an unarmed and wounded Iraqi

[Patroklos]

In my opinion, (after reading Oerdin's description of the event) some officer should be questioned for putting a man suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder back on the line so soon. They must be short of people.

You are missing a few links in the chain of command before you get to an officer. Especially in the Army.

It is very likely, since most of us officers are not psychologists, we would miss something like that. The guy probobly asked to go back out when his wound was found not life threatening, don't want to leave your buddies in the lurch.

[Patroklos]

it's still bad because the Arab media will have a field day with this

They will manipulate whatever they get to say this anyways, just like our media does.

[Arrian]

Sure, Patroklos, but this is really good footage for them. Really, really good.

-Arrian

[Guardian]

Felch: Apology accepted.

And no, I don't think of America as "the source of all the world's problems", although I do at times think you look more like a global bully than a global cop. I believe you try to do good most of the time, but your way of thinking - or what the rest of us believe to be your way of thinking - tends to get in your way at times. That is, to be blunt, you seem to have a bit of an attitude problem as far as the rest of the world is concerned, and this tends to make the rest of us less friendly towards you then we might otherwise have been.

In our eyes, you often seem to think the whole world should think the way you do and you seem to think that anyone who doesn't agree with you on an issue is either stupid or an evil enemy.

-And this from a nation claiming to be the global champion of democracy...

Anyway, enough of that.

On the other hand, one of Norway's largest newspapers had an article yesterday about a 61 year old man in Falluja. As the shooting in his neighborhood subsided, he came out into the street, blood dripping from wounds he got during the bombing, embraced the first American soldier he met and said "I'm glad you finally got here. Those bastards were destroying our city."

He and his friend had been sitting in the basement praying as the bombs rained down on the city. They knew there would be a lot of death and destruction. And still his reaction was to embrace the soldiers and say "I'm glad you finally got here. Those bastards were destroying our city."

[Pekka]

"Our soldiers have faced boobie traps and insurgents that pretend to be wounded to lure our troops near and then blow themselves up. How was our soldier suppose to know if these people were helpless civilians or insurgents in disguise ready to blow them up?"

Well, if he was lying there wounded, with no apparent detonators in his hand, his ass is finished.

I don't understand why there are people out to defend summary execution. Enemy territory or not, it's still a crime. Just for the record, you are nto supposed to kill insurgents either who are wounded and unarmed and pose no threat. The argument "you weren't there, you couldn't know how threatning it was" is moot point. Too bad, it turns out he wasn't dangerous in that situation. It's like saying it's ok for cops to shoot someone if someone pulls out car keys, when not ordered to not to do that.

If we think this is a criteria of what is a crime and what is not, then there is no crime in the field of war. If we leave it up to the individual do decide how threatning it is, and in case you have unarmed and wounded dude, well too bad, he must of miscalculated the situation. Makes absolutely no difference.

But if he was shot the day before, the one who ordered him to go on a mission again should be interviewed also. Looking for justification to this is defending a killer. He might have been jumpy and in some kind of mode after been shot, but really, it's no excuse, it's just an explanation why he was jumpy.

This all of course assuming the story was so that they walked in calmly and shot one dude.

[Chemical Ollie]

I would believe there have been worse crimes that are not on TV. I read an account posted in the other Falluja thread about refugees getting mowed down while they tried to escape swimming across the river.

According to Swedish TV news last night, Red Cross representatives claimed that war crimes have been committed by both sides. The news did not go into further detail.

[Arrian]

Apparently, it wasn't one guy that was shot, it was four:

By STEVEN R. HURST, Associated Press Writer

NEW YORK - A U.S. Marine shot and killed a wounded and apparently unarmed Iraqi prisoner in a mosque in the former insurgent stronghold of Fallujah, according to dramatic pool television pictures broadcast Monday. A Marine spokesman in Washington said the shooting was under investigation.

The shooting Saturday was videotaped by pool correspondent Kevin Sites of NBC television, who said three other previously wounded prisoners in the mosque apparently also had been shot again by the Marines inside the mosque.

The incident played out as the Marines 3rd Battalion, 1st Regiment, returned to the unidentified Fallujah mosque Saturday. Sites was embedded with the unit.

Sites reported that a different Marine unit had come under fire from the mosque on Friday. Those Marines stormed the building, killing ten men and wounding five others, Sites said. The Marines said the fighters in the mosque had been armed with rocket-propelled grenades and AK-47 rifles.

The Marines had treated the wounded, he reported, left them behind and continued on Friday with their drive to retake the city from insurgents who have been battling U.S.-led occupation forces in Iraq (news - web sites) with increasing ferocity and violence in recent months.

On the video as the camera moved into the mosque during the Saturday incident, a Marine can be heard shouting obscenities in the background, yelling that one of the men was only pretending to be dead.

The video then showed a Marine raising his rifle toward a prisoner laying on the floor of the mosque but neither NBC nor CNN showed the bullet hitting the man. At that moment the video was blacked out but the report of the rifle could be heard.

The blacked out portion of the video tape, provided later to Associated Press Television News and other members of the network pool, showed the bullet striking the man in the upper body, possibly the head. His blood splatters on the wall behind him and his body goes limp.

Sites reported a Marine in the same unit had been killed just a day earlier when he tended to the booby-trapped dead body of an insurgent.

The events on the videotape began as some of the Marines from the unit accompanied by Sites approached the mosque on Saturday, a day after it was stormed by other Marines.

Gunfire can be heard from inside the mosque, and at its entrance, Marines who were already in the building emerge. They are asked by an approaching Marine lieutenant if there were insurgents inside and if the Marines had shot any of them. A Marine can be heard responding affirmatively. The lieutenant then asks if they were armed and fellow Marine shrugs.

Sites' account said the wounded men, who he said were prisoners and who were hurt in the previous day's attack, had been shot again by the Marines on the Saturday visit.

The videotape showed two of the wounded men propped against the wall and Sites said they were bleeding to death. According his report, a third wounded man appeared already dead, while a fourth was severely wounded but breathing. The fifth was covered by a blanket but did not appear to have been shot again after the Marines returned. It was the fourth man who was shown being shot.

A spokesman at Marine Corps headquarters in the Pentagon (news - web sites), Maj. Doug Powell, said the incident was "being investigated." He had no further details, other than to confirm the incident happened on Saturday and that the Marines involved were part of the 1st Marine Division.

[kittenOFchaos]

The soliders looked rather chilled out considering it was a combat zone. It appeared like they were out for a nice stroll, found an interesting looking building. Wandered in.

Hey, some dead guys! "He ain't dead, brrrp!" Then this other Iraqi get out of his makeshift bed and surrenders.

There was no reaction from the rest of the patrol, which is surprising if this was out of the ordinary...you'd say "Easy bud!" or something. It was a rather stilted performance and just appeared to be rather like a surreal french horror film.

I think the grunt will be jailed for some time, he doesn't appear to have a leg to stand on and questions will be asked about how the rest of the patrol responded, immediately and when they reported in. The grunts crime is evident, to be caught on camera doing what they've been doing all day.

[Sikander]

Is there a link to the full video? I'm having trouble picturing what went on.

[Gangerolf]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4014901.stm

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Gangerolf
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4014901.stm

Thanks, but it didn't really clear things up. The commentator supplies all of the context while the footage shows nothing. I'd like to see the reporter who was the eye witness interviewed about it.

[Kidlicious]

Someone on a right wing radio program said that this is what they would want their kid to do, and the host agreed.

What the hell?

[Arrian]

Right wing talk radio, Kid. That says it all.

-Arrian

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Someone on a right wing radio program said that this is what they would want their kid to do, and the host agreed.

What the hell?

You'd think they'd at least complain about the language.

[Kidlicious]

There's a lot of those dittoheads Arrian.