Rugby - Running Out of Titles

[Havak]

Presumably the pools will switch around each year.

I would assume they get drawn annually with a seeding system at work.

Rest assured I'll be watching on Fox Sports!

Some of my crowd are making pessimistic noises about our midfield. They don’t like my ‘throw in the young uns’ approach. I look forward to your thoughts on the game after next weekend then.

All that stinky bait and not even small nibble?

And, these days, a lot of people here think him a quitter.

He is a quitter – although his reasons for doing so are not without some merit. Not much – but some. In essence it was all about the fact our players are not centrally contracted and he couldn’t have them as and when he wanted. He had worked with it for six years but suddenly it became all consuming – the clubs would not budge and rattles flew from Knighted prams. A quitter he is.

But he isn’t a prat – it’s a mistake to think he is. An insensitive dill maybe, and certainly an egotist – but not a prat. Very seldom loses control. Most of what he says is deliberate even when extreme – excepting immediately post game when he has control issues (he confesses that). In that Perth press conference that caused the initial fresh wave of hatred of him in the RWC (daring to go back at Aussie press comments actually at the press conference – what was he thinking!?) he knew what he was doing – he calls it “pressure for pressure”. Whether it was sensible given the rabid nature of the Aussie media at times is debatable – but it was not a prattish wander into a minefield, rather a determined drive through with an armoured division.

And if you think about it he drew 90% of the media flak throughout the tournament. Method in the madness perhaps?

No, the French have a different sense of humor. But they'll come up with something, I'm sure.

Oh it’s funny to me and to the team. Do it to the Aussies at a Twickenham dinner and suddenly I can forsee sense of humour failures all around and diplomatic incidents. Many of your countrymen can ‘give’ – very few can ‘take’ in the way you can.

I have been to a number of games in France – they can be niggly shortly after the game if they lost and briefly cocky if they won (can’t we all – well except we English who are the very soul of discretion of course) – but they are consummate post match hosts. At the worst they will probably play footage of their last Grand Slam – lets just hope they don’t have any from 2005, 2006 or 2007 to show. I guarantee they will not show France-NZ from November 2004!

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Havak

I guarantee they will not show France-NZ from November 2004!

What game are you talking about ? Nobody knows when it was played nor where is the Stade de France...

Uh? What? Waterloo? Don't know neither... Why?

[Havak]

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
He is a quitter – although his reasons for doing so are not without some merit. Not much – but some. In essence it was all about the fact our players are not centrally contracted and he couldn’t have them as and when he wanted. He had worked with it for six years but suddenly it became all consuming – the clubs would not budge and rattles flew from Knighted prams. A quitter he is.

The contract argument is a smokescreen. I think the reality is that he knew the largely elderly team had once chance at World Cup glory and it got there. That, I have to say, in context, with players like J****, Back, Wilkinson, et al, was the easy part. The hard part - the real challenge, the real test of a coach's mettle - came next. Coaching a team lacking those who carried it. Rebuilding. Copping losses. He got a taste of it in the last SH tour and didn't like it. Suddenly, a passion for s***** emerged. If he'd had any brains, he'd've retired immediately after the WRC.

But he isn’t a prat – it’s a mistake to think he is. An insensitive dill maybe, and certainly an egotist –

You've just defined a prat.

Many of your countrymen can ‘give’ – very few can ‘take’ in the way you can.

I sue anyone who calls me Australian!

I have been to a number of games in France – they can be niggly shortly after the game if they lost and briefly cocky if they won (can’t we all – well except we English who are the very soul of discretion of course) – but they are consummate post match hosts.

Because they're civilised, part of the real world. Unlike the p*icks who populate this sh*thole!

[Havak]

Okay I’ll concede the prat issue – for me the definition encompasses someone who is ‘stupid’ to a certain extent and I don’t believe Clive is – but the way he conducts himself sometimes can be considered prattish I guess.

I think the reality is that he knew the largely elderly team had once chance at World Cup glory and it got there.

The irony is I think the team by 2007 will have a shot at retaining. They certainly will not go in as favourites but there is some good young talent around and if they get game time now by 2007 it could be a pretty good team. I expect another painful six nations this season as Ireland and France (in non-NZ facing mode) are very strong teams but next season I think we may be back to a real competitive state. Having said that we could triumph this year – and France will not take visiting twickers lightly I can assure you.

Some of the youngsters starting to figure are really exciting – and for once it is not all gnarled forwards coming through – the Taits, Smiths, Ellis and Varndells of English rugger can really play. At the same time there is a new crop of damn good forwards coming through. Let me put it this way – whatever happens you shouldn’t expect the tri-nations to keep walloping England by huge margins – and don’t be surprised if white start winning regularly again (particularly at HQ).

Whether Robinson is the man to take the team forward in the best way I am not at all sure. I would have preferred Melville or even the fallen star Deano.

You have picked Clive’s ‘strengths’ before Finbar – he is an MD who puts infrastructure in place and surrounds himself with talent. Using this system he could succeed in Soccer (the national sports drips money after all). But frankly I don’t care – Soccer can disappear up it’s own jacksy for me – overpaid morons kissing a ball (and each other) for 90 minutes.

The Lions tour is going to be fascinating to see how he conducts himself without a towering skipper on the field marshalling the troops and making it easy for him. BO’D is many things but he has never impressed me as a skipper.

Because they're civilised, part of the real world. Unlike the p*icks who populate this sh*thole!

But that’s what surprised me – away from the actual issue of sport I found your countrymen friendly and welcoming. Get onto the subject of sport and a sea change occurs – normal friendly people suddenly become rabid anti-pom crusaders. And bizarrely they include the Celts under that Pommy blanket in sport! It was a culture shock initially but you quickly get used to it.

Did I tell you about the Hotel bar episode in Sydney? Drinking in a hotel down near Sydney harbour two days before the last test I am talking all friendly like to two Aussies – I innocently praise both Skippers as “the two best skippers in the game”. Their faces instantly go red and I get both barrels – “not yours mate he’s a just a ******* thug”. You can imagine how well that went down with me. I kept my diplomatic cool (it was early in the night) and just told them they were idiots if they truly believed that and clearly knew nothing about rugby before leaving them and going back to my tour party.

But it wasn’t an isolated incident – time and again I encountered people who automatically though “Aussie good player, Pom Bad player”. It was in fact all too obvious that many Wallaby followers are just flag followers and not lovers of the sport itself.

Okay [/rant mode off]

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by finbar
I sue anyone who calls me Australian!

Damn, he knows my real name and my address...

[Havak]

Real name? You mean Tamerlin is not your real name?

[Tamerlin]

Do you mean Havak is your real name?

[Havak]

Perhaps not.

Martin Johnson isn't it either.

[Tamerlin]

It must be strange to speak about oneself at the third person.

[Caligastia]

So...when does the Super 12 start?

[finbar]

Originally posted by Caligastia
So...when does the Super 12 start?

Friday, February 25th!

[LDiCesare]

A few comments on France 22 players for next saturday:
Front row is unchanged, second mostly the same with Lambolley probably as a replacement. Third row is untried. Harinordoquy will be the most exprerienced at international level. I think we'll miss Betsen.
Delaigue makes his come-back. A big . Really. Of course, he's not exactly young, but he's certainly one of our best fly halves, and the most experienced. Elhorga at full back is also the only one I'm confident enough can replace Brusque. The wingers I'm not sure are the best choice. But then, against Scotland, I'm not sure it'll matter much.
Apparently Florian Fritz would have been selected as a center but he messed in a match against Scotland under 21's last year, so he will not be selected before march. Seeing glimpses of him, I think this one will make a good French center. Tamerlin will probably say the same, considering the club Fritz plays for.
Still, the team may very well beat Scotland, but it will be much harder against England with a back row that's not used to playing together.

[Tamerlin]

I am really pleased with Yann Delaigue's selection, he is really deserving it and the Stade Toulousain's managers should not have let him go last year, we miss him. The problem is that he will certainly feel limited by Bernard Laporte's game patterns that don't let any freedom to the players. There are great chances that he will not be able to show his great skill because of this and this is a pitty.

Florian Fritz is a really good player and his performance today against Béziers demonstrated it again, if it was needed at all. He has been elected player of December by the French players and the French press.

Stade Toulousain 46 - Association Sportive Béziers Hérault 10

As usual the Stade Toulousain has alternated the good and the ugly though the good prevailed over the bad, the rear lines have shown really good things and this is rather new. Frédéric Michalack played very well along with William Servat, Florian Fritz and Gareth Thomas... among others. Even Jean-Frédéric Dubois (Yann Delaigue's replacement) has played far better than usual though he still has to raise his level. Though valliant, the Bittérois proved limited and did not manage to cope with Toulouse's "heavies" and the light cavalry. The Toulousains still have some work to do as some flaws still need to be erased. The beginning and the end of the game demonstrated that the Stade Toulousain can get disorganised while there is no strong pressure from the opponent. This could be fatal against a stronger team...

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Okay I’ll concede the prat issue – for me the definition encompasses someone who is ‘stupid’ to a certain extent and I don’t believe Clive is – but the way he conducts himself sometimes can be considered prattish I guess.

Stupid doesn't have to mean lacking in intelligence. Plenty of bright people can also be stupid. Clive, for instance.

Some of the youngsters starting to figure are really exciting – and for once it is not all gnarled forwards coming through – the Taits, Smiths, Ellis and Varndells of English rugger can really play. At the same time there is a new crop of damn good forwards coming through.

Good to hear. So let's see some courage and forward-thinking in selection. Do an Eddie and blood a 20 year-old Matt Giteau. Sort out who has promise. Don't revert to proven failures like H. Paul. There's no future in it.

Whether Robinson is the man to take the team forward in the best way I am not at all sure.

The evidence thus far is that he's not.

You have picked Clive’s ‘strengths’ before Finbar – he is an MD who puts infrastructure in place and surrounds himself with talent.

That's the McQueen system. It could only come to rugby when there was enough money to fund it. It's very expensive.

The Lions tour is going to be fascinating to see how he conducts himself without a towering skipper on the field marshalling the troops and making it easy for him. BO’D is many things but he has never impressed me as a skipper.

I don't know BO'D well enough so I'll take your word for it. I think Clive's other problem is going to be that this Lions' squad - unless I've missed something over the last year or so, or unless someone jumps out of the ground - isn't going to be anywhere near the quality of the lot that came here.

But that’s what surprised me – away from the actual issue of sport I found your countrymen friendly and welcoming. Get onto the subject of sport and a sea change occurs – normal friendly people suddenly become rabid anti-pom crusaders. And bizarrely they include the Celts under that Pommy blanket in sport! It was a culture shock initially but you quickly get used to it.

They're jingoistic idiots. The country is full of them. Why do you think I hate this place so much? And, yes, they can be friendly and welcoming, but there's a deep and very nasty, very self-important and selfish vein just beneath the surface.

Did I tell you about the Hotel bar episode in Sydney? Drinking in a hotel down near Sydney harbour two days before the last test I am talking all friendly like to two Aussies – I innocently praise both Skippers as “the two best skippers in the game”. Their faces instantly go red and I get both barrels – “not yours mate he’s a just a ******* thug”. You can imagine how well that went down with me. I kept my diplomatic cool (it was early in the night) and just told them they were idiots if they truly believed that and clearly knew nothing about rugby before leaving them and going back to my tour party.

QED. It all springs from a national inferiority complex. Australians like to think their country is important on the world stage and have constantly to reassure themselves that it is. All of which explains our current Prime Minister's head being so far up the rectums of Bush and Blair.

But it wasn’t an isolated incident – time and again I encountered people who automatically though “Aussie good player, Pom Bad player”. It was in fact all too obvious that many Wallaby followers are just flag followers and not lovers of the sport itself.

See above.