werenotsorry.com - the face of the Red America

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
That's the only relevent one. Still PWND!

Dino... you mean the Emancipation Proclamation, right? That's the one that freed slaves in all rebelling territory, but retained slavery in all current states as well as all currently re-captured rebel territory.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
Yet abolition became the driving force of the war.

The closest it came was the sense that abolition would punish the Slave owners and weaken the Southern cause and their ability to wage war. Not for moral reasons, for political and strategic reasons. The primary reason for the war, from start to finish, was to keep the union whole.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
That's the only relevent one. Still PWND!

You are hilarious

The Emancipation Proclomation was issued a full year after the Gettysburg Address, which had nothing to do with slavery.


Even so, it was smart by Lincoln to play nice with the border states until the war was won and slavery met its eventual doom via Consitutuational Amendment.

You know, that's usually what Constituational Amendments are for, to protect the rights of people, not to discriminate against them for being different.

[DinoDoc]

Yes. I meant that one.

Originally posted by Wycoff
Dino... you mean the Emancipation Proclamation, right?

Whatever. It's almost 1 am here cut me a little slack. He's still PWND though.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Wycoff


The closest it came was the sense that abolition would punish the Slave owners and weaken the Southern cause and their ability to wage war. Not for moral reasons, for political and strategic reasons. The primary reason for the war, from start to finish, was to keep the union whole.

Political and strategic reasons to the leadership in charge, certainly. Which again is why it wasn't issued in the border states.

However, the PEOPLE took it up as a moral cause, plain and simple. If it did not have any moral meaning to them, the action itself would have been irrelevent

Lincoln knew how strongly people felt about slavery and was waiting to issue the Proclomation from the very beginning. He had to wait for a Union victory, so the move would not seem like a blatant political move.

[MrFun]

In the 1850s, industrialization was beginning to take off. The new Republican Party's program was in favor of full-throttle industrialization in lieu of expanding the federal government's investment in such development.

The Southern Democrats and a large number of Northern Democrats opposed such a program for fear of increased corrupt ties between corporations and government officials, along with centralization of federal power.

However, the Republican Party also opposed the expansion of slavery. They sought to preserve the western territories for white settlers and exclude black slaves as well as free blacks from the territories. Most Republicans adhered to a racist, anti-slavery ideology.

Yet, at same time, there was a distinct minority of Republicans who were sincerely racial egalitarians and opposed slavery in its entirety. They only gained temporary power in the legislative agenda though, during the post-Johnson years when they endorsed more radical acts that most moderate Republicans could not swallow.

With the ongoing guerrilla warfare, political terrorism, and racial violence in Reconstruction South, the Republican Party began to negotiate on the issues of race in favor of their program for mass industrialization with increased federal government investment. So after 1876, the Republican Party allowed the Southern redeemers to violently crush the last vestiges of black political participation and economic mobility in attempt to retain their party's political power in the federal government with the disputed election of 1876.

[Ted Striker]

Re: Yes. I meant that one.

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Whatever. It's almost 1 am here cut me a little slack. He's still PWND though.

Well I guess that settles it.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Ted Striker

http://historytogo.utah.gov/slavery.html

You can have the other 2.

color me PWNED!

However, Utah still isn't known as a slave state. It also wasn't something taught in Utah State History.....bastards.

ACK!

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Tuberski


color me PWNED!

However, Utah still isn't known as a slave state. It also wasn't something taught in Utah State History.....bastards.

ACK!

And often what is not taught in grade school and high school history courses is what would make history more complicated in reality, and hence, more accurate.

[Ted Striker]

Anyway, back to the pics

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Ted Striker

However, the PEOPLE took it up as a moral cause, plain and simple. If it did not have any moral meaning to them, the action itself would have been irrelevent

I completely disagree. The abolitionists were a minority, and the Emancipation proclamation was as much of a foreign policy tool as it was anything. Since the Brits and French had already banned slavery, it would have been politically difficult for them to diplomatically recognize the slave holding South if the South looked like it was an illigitamate rebellion. Lincoln feared foreign recognition of the CSA, as that could lead to foreign intervention in the war. The administration had to wait for some clear victories so the Proclamation wouldn't appear to be an act of desperation, and thus dismissed as a desperate strategy by the relevant foreign powers. After Vicksburg and Gettysburg the North clearly had the advantage. Lincoln could then proclaim the Emancipation Proclamation, giving the US the moral upper hand and effectively guaranteeing that the premier European powers would not recognize the South.

It would be nice to say that the Union and its citizens was motivated by moral obligation to liberate the slaves, but I fear that that's historically disingenuous. Though there was an abolitionist movement in the North it was not the driving force behind the war.

[DinoDoc]

Zod would never say anything like that.

[Wycoff]

Good Post, Mr. Fun

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Zod would never say anything like that.

He was accurate right up to Houston.

ACK!

[Drake Tungsten]

Nebraska was a slave state? No wonder you fools lost the election; you can't even get basic historical facts right...